Upcoming Changes to World Chat

Sir Opinion Alot · May 5, 2017

Bolan Hoffbauer said: ↑

I disagree with the chat room and would like to remind KANO apps of "canadian law" of online harassment and facebook Community Standards. Also I want you to block the F word and other cuss being used in a chat system within your company. This so called lounge is connected to game play so just opting out isn't the answer.
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you have to agree to go into that chat also, so leave it be and stop the pampering of everyone if you dont like the chat stay out it warns you to enter at your own risk. you have the world chat for the politeness, and leave people and the cussing alone you censor every other chat leave 1 alone this is for the rough necks and those rowdy crowd.

maddog1122 · May 8, 2017

You might as well do away with the world chat, by making it so we cannot click on others names, you've made this chat useless to be in. you've also disabled us from being able to do events posted in world chat. you should have just done away with the world chat completely or went back to the speaker points system you had before. I've already quit one of your servers and one game. its almost time to quit all your games. while i agree at least your making changes, your completely missing the point of what we were all talking about. and you say this is based on all the feedback. the feedback I've seen over the last eight years or so, has not said anything about disabling the game further. it's always been on getting rid of the abuse done in the chats, and you just opened another chat that allows that same abuse to go right back to what it was. a friend of mine and me have read the chat LOGSOF THELAST TWO DAYS IN THE LOUNGE AND YOU MADE IT right back to the point of where it was in world chat, you only moved it to a different spot on the game. these latest changes made me glad that I quit that one game and server

maddog1122 · May 8, 2017

AlterEgoT said: ↑

And apparently you didn't read my post correctly. You are quite correct I long ago quit LCN. But I've been the subject of exactly what you speak of a good number of times. I've also been the subject of a ban for saying you thief talking about the HL all in good fun and everyone in the game knew that.

The problem with blanket statements or rules is that it is darn hard to punish those that are cruel especially repeatedly versus those that have been pushed to the edge.

I'll present this example. A person goes after someone in world chat. The cross the line from "trash talking" to hateful, spreading rumors, lies and using name calling in a direct and personal way. Others join in to tell the one crossing the line and throws something back at them that may not normally be said by that person. Should the defender be perma banned for standing up to a cruel bully? I think not myself.

But it is exactly the jumping to conclusions that you did to insinuate that I would have no idea what it feels like to be the subject of such nastiness. I've had folks posting where I work in world chat. How is that cool? I've been called every name in the book. I've had rumors spread and lies repeated. All over a game. I've had threatening messages outside the game through social platforms that were once required to play the game. Kano has a decent idea of some of the things, others they do not. Their hands may be tied regarding messages on social media outside their control but I would urge caution in using the control they DO have in the game against those who wish only to stand up to cruel people who go to such lengths over a game.

It will be difficult at best to decipher what is good natured and what is going to far. Without being part of the community, common game chat may well be deemed inappropriate but there is killing within the game, thus use of certain phrasing may trigger a "rule" but be totally game related. Thief? Sniping? I'll kill you eventually? Are those wrong? Depends on context. It depends on if there is indication that it is not game related.

Simply put, Kano can try to better clarify decent behavior for a group that seems to feel they should be free to be as nasty as they want, but with censorship we lose the ability to use world chat to enhance the game. There are often quiet moments within the game, and world chat is a way to get people active within the game.

Deciphering will be difficult. The truth is, if we would all treat each other with a certain level of respect Kano wouldn't need this thread. But they are asking for input. Not more mud slinging or finger pointing. They need a few voices of reason, not voices that cry I am offended or voice that cry but that's completely part of the game.

I personally simply wish to point out that we need to all quit reacting so strongly and think through the implications. What seems a simple obvious may not be so simply. Heck by banning the word alt in WC do you realize we often get put in timeout for words that have that in it? I have been in time out more times than I can count for copying the phrase and dealt X amount of damage but only copying the last part of the phrase to reduce clutter. and the word dealt gets me. Shoot it used to ban me if I typed dealt instead of copying it.

So I stand by what I said. And if you reacted strongly without reading what I wrote about taking it within a larger scope, then perhaps you should reread. I reiterate that it's important to not put blanket rules in place that will shut down chat due to it's restrictiveness. And that things pertaining to a persons personal life (that includes as you stated reps through the mud) and IF Kano looks at context they will see the trends of repeat offenders and if it's harmless horsing around, or to the point of cruel.

Just because one is offended doesn't make them right.

ps. For context for those that do not know me. I grew up in this game back when the game solved this stuff themselves. When someone was cruel the entire game kept them dead. Since folks can now stay dead and sit in wc, and there are things in place like protection some of the self policing of jerks has been taken away. But really, we should look at our own game play. What do WE do when we see it? Those that have been around me at all in the game will probably agree, I tell folks to knock it off all the time. If they want to turn their attention to me for it, so be it, I've been there before. Perhaps if more people didn't allow it in their squad and friendships, there would be less of a problem for kano to deal with. But I too have had bad days and come in at the wrong moment and not realized there was more before I got there that led to what was being said. We are human. We goof.

(I really should go back to staying out of these forums. No good comes from it. I just end up writing a book such as above at 1am)

I say again, Good luck Kano. You shouldn't have to have this conversation, but I am glad you are seeking input. I wish I was seeing more helpful ideas in here.
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I don't disagree with you on the subjects of simple misunderstanding! If you have read any of my posts you would also see that being a thief for stealing a kill or hitlist that would be kewl as far as I m concern! however none 0f that is or has ever been the subjects of my posts, i'm talking about the trash talk that harms, a persons reputation, or threats in real life, which i have seen from other of your posts. Kano knows whats right or wrong and they just reopened a chat that has put the trash talk right back to what it was harming others. you don't have to be in the lounge for these same people that are doing all the abused to mention your names, or spread lies about you, hell i even quit one of the games myself and still my name is mentioned in games I don't even play anymore. and I agree that the ones who defends themselves from these types of abusive threats right up until the defenders start doing the same thing back. if they do then they should be punished or banned right along with the ones who were abusing people in the first place.

maddog1122 · May 8, 2017

AlterEgoT said: ↑

And apparently you didn't read my post correctly. You are quite correct I long ago quit LCN. But I've been the subject of exactly what you speak of a good number of times. I've also been the subject of a ban for saying you thief talking about the HL all in good fun and everyone in the game knew that.

The problem with blanket statements or rules is that it is darn hard to punish those that are cruel especially repeatedly versus those that have been pushed to the edge.

I'll present this example. A person goes after someone in world chat. The cross the line from "trash talking" to hateful, spreading rumors, lies and using name calling in a direct and personal way. Others join in to tell the one crossing the line and throws something back at them that may not normally be said by that person. Should the defender be perma banned for standing up to a cruel bully? I think not myself.

But it is exactly the jumping to conclusions that you did to insinuate that I would have no idea what it feels like to be the subject of such nastiness. I've had folks posting where I work in world chat. How is that cool? I've been called every name in the book. I've had rumors spread and lies repeated. All over a game. I've had threatening messages outside the game through social platforms that were once required to play the game. Kano has a decent idea of some of the things, others they do not. Their hands may be tied regarding messages on social media outside their control but I would urge caution in using the control they DO have in the game against those who wish only to stand up to cruel people who go to such lengths over a game.

It will be difficult at best to decipher what is good natured and what is going to far. Without being part of the community, common game chat may well be deemed inappropriate but there is killing within the game, thus use of certain phrasing may trigger a "rule" but be totally game related. Thief? Sniping? I'll kill you eventually? Are those wrong? Depends on context. It depends on if there is indication that it is not game related.

Simply put, Kano can try to better clarify decent behavior for a group that seems to feel they should be free to be as nasty as they want, but with censorship we lose the ability to use world chat to enhance the game. There are often quiet moments within the game, and world chat is a way to get people active within the game.

Deciphering will be difficult. The truth is, if we would all treat each other with a certain level of respect Kano wouldn't need this thread. But they are asking for input. Not more mud slinging or finger pointing. They need a few voices of reason, not voices that cry I am offended or voice that cry but that's completely part of the game.

I personally simply wish to point out that we need to all quit reacting so strongly and think through the implications. What seems a simple obvious may not be so simply. Heck by banning the word alt in WC do you realize we often get put in timeout for words that have that in it? I have been in time out more times than I can count for copying the phrase and dealt X amount of damage but only copying the last part of the phrase to reduce clutter. and the word dealt gets me. Shoot it used to ban me if I typed dealt instead of copying it.

So I stand by what I said. And if you reacted strongly without reading what I wrote about taking it within a larger scope, then perhaps you should reread. I reiterate that it's important to not put blanket rules in place that will shut down chat due to it's restrictiveness. And that things pertaining to a persons personal life (that includes as you stated reps through the mud) and IF Kano looks at context they will see the trends of repeat offenders and if it's harmless horsing around, or to the point of cruel.

Just because one is offended doesn't make them right.

ps. For context for those that do not know me. I grew up in this game back when the game solved this stuff themselves. When someone was cruel the entire game kept them dead. Since folks can now stay dead and sit in wc, and there are things in place like protection some of the self policing of jerks has been taken away. But really, we should look at our own game play. What do WE do when we see it? Those that have been around me at all in the game will probably agree, I tell folks to knock it off all the time. If they want to turn their attention to me for it, so be it, I've been there before. Perhaps if more people didn't allow it in their squad and friendships, there would be less of a problem for kano to deal with. But I too have had bad days and come in at the wrong moment and not realized there was more before I got there that led to what was being said. We are human. We goof.

(I really should go back to staying out of these forums. No good comes from it. I just end up writing a book such as above at 1am)

I say again, Good luck Kano. You shouldn't have to have this conversation, but I am glad you are seeking input. I wish I was seeing more helpful ideas in here.
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I've also read every word of what you stated and ii still stand by my statements, also my statements were not concerning being banned by simple words or defending oneself unless the one who defended themselves also overstep the line and did the same thing right back at the abusers, then becoming abusers themselves, then I agree they should also get banned., my statements have always been about people who abuse the rules or threaten and abuse people in the chats. and if you misunderstood what I was saying, I'll apoliige for that but I stand by my former statements

maddog1122 · May 8, 2017

AlterEgoT said: ↑

But how do they judge how far is too far? For instance, we have a number of folks that have odd nicknames that sound awful but it's a play on old jokes. To those that play it is not in anyway meant as nasty. Neither party is offended. It's not offensive to the point that reading it will scar anyone. I also cite my example above. You Thief! (I got 10 attacks on the list and you got 1 and got the kill) perhaps it means we feel the person actually steals irl or perhaps we mean the list. How is Kano going to tell?

I know it may sound simple. But we must remember each of us reads type in a different tone. And if they blanket say anything that could be considered personal or derogatory, then shoot we won't really be able to speak at all with any personality. And if we cannot speak with personality world chat becomes flat and folks do not hang around. When folks do not hang around, things do not happen in the game. If things do not happen in the game people do not play the game.

I wish I could think of a good answer, but in any of the games I have played it's a problem. How to stop those that are cruel while allowing enough freedom of speech to ensure enjoyment. I've yet to see moderation work well either. Mods get called out for banning folks for saying something against them personally or censoring too often. They get called for not censoring enough.

Truth of the matter is, they cannot possibly succeed in trying to please everyone. Mods have bad days too. Rules cannot take into account inflection, or context.

The only useable idea I can come up with is to have a coding where accounts are flagged if a moderator sees something (either via report or a trigger in the wc and once a user hits 5 (or whatever number) it flags for a discussion or a logging of said account's wc. This seems intrusive and none of us really want to feel like big brother is recording everything we say. but perhaps it is something Kano can use to build off. It would at least help them to ascertain when there are repeat offenders. From there a dialog with said user can take place where they explain their tone. If it seems continually towards one player then they can look at what the one player is saying and doing in the game as well. But as is the case with cheating. They would need to build a case. This would include a mechanism that looks for new accounts, as unfortunately folks that are cruel will often go to great lengths to continue to be cruel. Including starting accounts that they keep below listable levels. Building accounts that they keep for 21 days then dropping that one and starting a new one.

It's a lot more complicated in my opinion than, trash talking vs cruel. It's knowing the culture of the game and the players well enough to spot them or figuring out ways to trigger the system for abnormalities for a kano group to look at. Difficult at best.

Oops another book. I think I better take my own advice and close the forums

Thank you for your patience. and good luck.
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I spoke in world chat for over eight years without using any cuss words, or threats with certain words being banned. Anyone with common sense, that knows what is wrong by societys would be wrong to use in old jokes or play on words, do you realize that there have been several people that were tortures in society with old jokes. to the point hat those people felt they had no choice but to end their lifes. what may be funny to someone with a sick twisted mind, is not funny to a lot of us! My mom always told me that if you cannot say something nice about a person, then you should not say it at all. As far as I am concern there is no need for any type of trash talk in these games period! but that's only my opinion! making fun of how a person may look, or how they live just to insult them is not what these games were meant to be. But you will always have someone trolling these games to intentionally hurt someone if they can becuz that's how they get their kicks, as you stated, you yourself have been attacked by these type of people! and I respect you for defending yourself against these types of attacks, outside of that I still think that anyone who intentionally trys to insult or harm someone else in these chats should lose their chat privileges in said game permanently.
and yes, if I did that then I would accept that I lose my privileges too.

maddog1122 · May 8, 2017

Sir Opinion Alot said: ↑

you have to agree to go into that chat also, so leave it be and stop the pampering of everyone if you dont like the chat stay out it warns you to enter at your own risk. you have the world chat for the politeness, and leave people and the cussing alone you censor every other chat leave 1 alone this is for the rough necks and those rowdy crowd.
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you mean its for the ones who spend the most and rules the game to abuse people further with no restraining it at all. exactlty what's not needed in this game. I don't chat in the lounge but i do read all the abuse being done there. I'm very glad I stop playing that game also. I have hundreds of games I can play on other servers or disks that I don't have to put up with all that crap anymore. which is a shame becuz I liked mob wars, lcn very much but I had to choose between the game or my health and common sense. while I understand playing a game for entertainment, I don't understand allowing people to promote such hate, abuse and harm to other people or to use it to ruin peoples reputation, or to run their personal life thru the mud either and then stating that it was just a joke or some other lame excuse. and I for one am stopping the games I see this happening in from kano's becuz they just opened it to be done again. if it happens in other kano games like it did on server one mob wars,lcn, i'll leave those games also and take what ever money I spend on games to companys that don't allow that to happen

maddog1122 · May 9, 2017

sandy and Kristen,its time forme to quit all kano games, andmy accounts will be deleted soonin all kano games I play, my health has taken a turn for the worse and I gotta spendmy extra time fighting my cancer and going in for treatments. so I wanted to say good bye to all, its been fun, I already quit mob wars and asked for allmy accounts to be taken of fline. I wish you all the best of luck with all the abuse and problems in the chat rooms, this will be my last post in here also.

Jared · May 15, 2017

I remember the good old days when you could list someone for saying hi in chat. Sigh.

WorldB · May 15, 2017

PC world. No fun allowed any more

AlterEgoT · May 21, 2017

maddog1122 said: ↑

I spoke in world chat for over eight years without using any cuss words, or threats with certain words being banned. Anyone with common sense, that knows what is wrong by societys would be wrong to use in old jokes or play on words, do you realize that there have been several people that were tortures in society with old jokes. to the point hat those people felt they had no choice but to end their lifes. what may be funny to someone with a sick twisted mind, is not funny to a lot of us! My mom always told me that if you cannot say something nice about a person, then you should not say it at all. As far as I am concern there is no need for any type of trash talk in these games period! but that's only my opinion! making fun of how a person may look, or how they live just to insult them is not what these games were meant to be. But you will always have someone trolling these games to intentionally hurt someone if they can becuz that's how they get their kicks, as you stated, you yourself have been attacked by these type of people! and I respect you for defending yourself against these types of attacks, outside of that I still think that anyone who intentionally trys to insult or harm someone else in these chats should lose their chat privileges in said game permanently.
and yes, if I did that then I would accept that I lose my privileges too.
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You miss my point entirely.

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