Upcoming Changes to World Chat

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by SparkleMotion, Jan 21, 2017.

  1. Micaylah

    Micaylah Active Member

    Unfortunately all too often this is not what happens. A newbie get on, asks a question and they are either ridiculed or ignored. That's not to say it always happens, but I have seen it far too often.

    Also it would give a new player a chance to become familiar with the Forums if they are seeking gameplay answers or how to do something.

    Ditching WC would be like taking part of the game away. It does serve a purpose, actually many. It is a simple thing, that if you don't want to see it, close it. But taking that part of the game away is clearly not the popular vote, nor something I would like to see.

    And yes lots and lots of people have other venues to chat, but it's not "World Chat" now is it?
    maddog1122 likes this.
  2. AlterEgoT

    AlterEgoT Well-Known Member

    While I understand exactly what everyone is saying in regards to new folks posting in wc and becoming a target (actually I've been guilty of it myself although I did catch that I was caught in the group mentality and corrected myself) But that's where we players come in. We see a new player getting attacked it is within our ability as players to stand up for them. Besides that gives us new rivals simply in that act itself.

    Part of the problem involving new players is so many had started new accounts simply to troll and everyone began to believe every new account was someone just stirring trouble. The drop of MW folks further created a culture where it was us vs them. Since the app began and we had such an influx, the trend was continued but I've watched closely and folks have discovered hey they really are new and have begun to become more helpful and less aggressive to the new ones. Are they still going to get whiplash? Sure. There are unwritten moral codes in the game that are quite easy to break. But again hopefully a good samaritan stands up and explains what they did to draw the attention and helps get the aggressor off their back. This of course requires the new slayer to drop the attitude and ego long enough to learn the dynamics of the game. This is the case anyone joins any new game. It is not specific to the Kano apps.

    So for me I view it like this. Yes kano needs some guidelines but they should not have to police wc. WE ought to step and do it our dang selves. Why do we look for someone else to always solve our problems? Any of the new folks I've run across that took the time to learn the game have become strong accounts able to add to the game instead of draining from it.

    I am undecided about the grave talking. I would personally like to see a period of inactivity disconnect chat. While WC is an important component this is not a chat room. If they want to sit all day talking crap or shooting the sh*t there are better places. If they aren't playing, then what's the point? But it's not a big deal to me. I simply bookmark them for later.

    I feel Kano needs to look for folks that are taking a game and turning it into a way to harass people themselves instead of using wc as a way to play the game. Going on the side of forgiveness. And let US the players deal with the idiots. But I'm old school and that is no longer the way of the games here so pft what do I know ;)

    PS if you aren't strong enough to defend goodness I can understand that. But a good many of us have strong enough shoulders to handle the idiots. And/or kamikaze enough to not care if we aren't strong enough. If it's wrong we'll take the heat for what's right regardless. it's a game. Surely we can handle it ;)
    Kirsten and maddog1122 like this.
  3. maddog1122

    maddog1122 Active Member

    both players should be banned if they result to being nasty, two wrong don't make a right and i read every word you said and I do understand what your implying. a lot I agree with, some I don't. but thats a choice of opinion and another topic., you and I both have been thru the mud slinging and the lies and personal stuff being said in, I assume you also been called a liar and a lot other names too, just like I have. I'm not saying it isn't wrong, I'm saying it should be stopped altogether. if people result tot hat or harming others then they need to be banned or stopped from doing more harm period. We've had decent conversations in world chat about the game, we had fun without the nastiness at times until the same people come in chat that are doing things. And why should we quit reacting to such nastiness. your right also about kano making it impossible for us to control these people in the chat room. there have been good suggestions on how to stop a lot of this, things that they could simply bring back to control such behavior. one such way of controlling some of the problems is to bring back the speaker points! I'm sure there will be some not liking any new changes too but at least they are trying to control or stop it. there's also private pm's for friends to joke around between each other, But some people use the w/c as a playground to spread more nastiness or crap about people. I may have different opinions on what you right at times. but do i always disagree with them, no. do i understand what your saying very much so! if you think i come on strong against you then I apoligise, but your not in world chat in mob wars anymore and havent been for awhile. same as I am not in the chat rooms in Vikings or pc anymore. I don't comment on those games either. but i assume that your getting the same reactions as we do in mob wars, lcn. you and I both come from when it was different and we could have settled the problems ourselfs. what all the games need also is to give us back control over how we deal with these people or simply ban them so they cannot do it everyday.
    Debra Otter likes this.
  4. maddog1122

    maddog1122 Active Member

    banter between people are ok as far as I am concern, example of my own, one person I fight with and i sent remarks to each other, they are not nasty but good banter, we have done so for over a year now. we fight each other, and we don't get personal about eithers familys or each other. no problem.

    how can kano tell the difference, that is very easy by the thousands of reports and going thru the logs to see whats being said. they allow some trash talk, but there is no filter for some of the words that people use to be nasty. when they do they should be given one warning to stop it, if they continue then they should be banned right away, not let them go on for a month or two doing the same thing. I two have been warned a few times over using some words, so I stop using them after that. it should be about the game, not someone insulting a person who takes a trip or vacation, someone's health in real life, or if they have handicaps should not be allowed to make fun of them. these things have nothing to do with the game itself. I have no problem with statements concerning the game or joking around about someone taking a bounty that another one was trying to get and i agree, that at times, if its statements concerning the game, they should be allowed. but that's not what we are talking about, its the statements about personal things and nothing that should be about the game or brought into it. If a player comes in that has cancer to play to relieve some of the stress and pain they are going thru or the game is a social outlet for them when they are disable too much to be able to get out and are homebound. they should not have to bear such people mocking them or saying degrading things about them. people need a outlet sometimes to express the things they are going thru to be able to heal. they should not have to go thru this, but they do.
  5. maddog1122

    maddog1122 Active Member

    I was at one time against you must be healed to be able to talk in world chat but as each day goes by, I agree with it more and more. and your three suggestions would have my full support now
  6. AlterEgoT

    AlterEgoT Well-Known Member

    I completely agree that those that have shown that they are just there to be hateful and cruel need to be dealt with. We just differ on those that just get fed up with those that have gotten away with it for a long time. I suspect we agree more than we disagree it's just that we see it differently in our wordings. I do not condone anything that is a personal attack for the most part. But for instance, we have a lot of folks in ZS that are just so over the top that we all know it's all in good fun. My fear is that those trying to enforce this that are not in the game cannot tell the difference between cruel intentions and an isolated incident. I feel that folks that are trying to stand up to creeps shouldn't get the same thing as folks that continually harass people.

    To answer your question, It really isn't very often I'm called a liar. I'm simply too well known for being honest to a fault. So they prefer to go after me for being a bully when I haven't done anything or to go to my personal life to try to hurt me.

    Let me give an example that might help you see what I mean. I had a guy in WC that tracked down outside of my FB and the game where I worked and lived and began posting this information into wc. My BF went off on the dude. Would it be fair to ask him to stand by while some creep put me personally at risk? Now I'm a fairly hot tempered gentle person so I handle things different then a lot of folks but I can't honestly see that it is wise of kano to take the chat privilege away from the one that is just trying to keep someone he cares about safe. A time out. A few days to cool off maybe. But to ban him for that is in my opinion not only unfair but detrimental to stopping the crap.

    But this is where I say when people go personal it is a serious thing. I've had entirely too many threats outside the game from people that are trying to gain the upper hand in a simple point and click game. THIS is unacceptable. And while kano can do nothing about the outside messages, they CAN hammer those in the game that have shown IN the game that they go this route.

    We all have our triggers. And I think folks that generally speaking the players of the game respect should have some element of warning instead of banning. If we ban everyone for going off on a bad day we will soon have no one speaking. It's happened a few times within our game. WC is no longer the fun it used to be. Too many are banned. Many that haven't had the history of being cruel just went out of bounds. So a point system seems more fair. Not based on reports but based on independent research.

    I'd even go so far as recommending something like FB did. An automatic ban after a certain number of reports on one player's statement. Not ideal as it can be abused entirely too easily. But when someone's enemies are reporting someone and 20 people hit the report button instantly someone has more than likely gone way too far. If the entire group reading has reacted, this leads more credence than if someone constantly reports.

    I'm not sure the solution. I think I'd just rather go back to the old days where bans didn't happen often so you knew when someone got their chat taken away they had proven time and again they couldn't handle social interaction. And let the gamers regain some of the policing. Get rid of all the ways people can hide from retribution.

    alas, another book. I suck at succinct speaking :p
    Micaylah and maddog1122 like this.
  7. maddog1122

    maddog1122 Active Member

    I too agree with some of this, a easy way to enforce world chat is to make it have the same rules there as we have here. if people get out of line like here they would be banned for awhile from participating and the comments could be deleted. also the repeat offender would have been warned not to do so and if they did it again then they know what would happen ahead of time.
  8. maddog1122

    maddog1122 Active Member

    finally something I agree with myself. I've attacked new people that were trolling and I have helped several people also. but the only thing I see wrong with this is what if the person doing the bag stuff is the strongest person in the game, while claiming they themselves were done wrong when they first come to the game, but now they are at times ten times worse then the ones who were mocking them. and when someone does stand up to them they themselves are made the target for a lot of higher levels that are either too afraid to cross any such person, or they join in doing the same crap to others. on this point I too agree, that kano needs to step in then
  9. maddog1122

    maddog1122 Active Member

    this time also I agree wit you and for your example of being attacked personally and spreading your person information, that is exactly what I was talking about in harming others personally. do I agree that your boyfriend should be banned permanently, no, I do however agree that a ban for a few days might have been called for.
    but again in the thing about a whole group reporting someone. in the game several times people have been asked to report something that might have not been needed to be put in world chat just to get someone banned, at this timers, the case should be taken care of as a one on one incident. but if its repeated several times, then of course the reports should be consider. My self, I have no problem with someone defending their family. and I agree they need to get rid of all the ways a person can hide from us when that happens. but with the influx of new people, way too many people have went crying to kano about higher levels not allowing them to play. us old school players went thru the same thing when we started and we managed to play without all the changes to protect us. the gameplay was ruin when they installed the 60 day protection thing. and taking away our way of dealing with these trolls. we didn't have to write books back then to get our point across either. people acted like adults that had respect for each other, now a days some of the adults are worse than a 2 year old
  10. SparkleMotion

    SparkleMotion Kano/Apps Support

    Hey Micaylah, this is a great question, and definitely part of the confusion we want to address. The separation generally lies in personal insults, that remark on things outside of the game. Calling someone a bad player, weak, general game trash talk is fine but when that becomes 'you're a useless human' or 'you're a weak willed individual' (just made up examples of course) that's what would cross the line. We'll have some more hopefully clear examples and explanations in the post coming next week :)
    Micaylah likes this.
  11. SparkleMotion

    SparkleMotion Kano/Apps Support

    On another note, thank you to everyone that has so far participated in this discussion! It's been civil and for the most part on topic, which I really appreciate. I'll be checking in again later today, tomorrow, and throughout the week to ensure I'm seeing all of your feedback.

    We might not be able to implement everything you're all asking for, but I'm going to try to find a happy balance that addresses these concerns.
    Micaylah and Scoughman like this.
  12. AlterEgoT

    AlterEgoT Well-Known Member

    I concur.

    Unfortunately, I was under the impression this WAS what they were doing but yet I've seen far too many banned for banter and far too few banned for personal attacks. So apparently it isn't as easy to tell from a log as it is as when you are live in the game :/ If it were we wouldn't need this thread at all.
  13. AlterEgoT

    AlterEgoT Well-Known Member

    I suppose this is where being social comes in. Even a high level has a limit as to how many folks they can effectively fight at any given time.

    I am sure this is a bit different in the other games where leveling was allowed to go out of control so perhaps it is way more difficult in the other games. ZS was formed with the idea that anyone can compete if they play it right. It's gotten out of whack with the cost of bounties but it still would be feasible to take down even the highest player if folks wanted to.

    I defer to those of you in the other games on if it would work in yours.
  14. AlterEgoT

    AlterEgoT Well-Known Member

    Again, I can only stress that over regulating hurts the game. While we seem to all agree there is a problem, it will be difficult from logs to be fair to the players if it is too restrictive.

    As is the case with all Kano bans. We players need to understand that there are different scales. Some things will be dealt with swiftly other items will require kano to build a case so to speak. Otherwise, harmless posting or quoting may get an innocent player taken out of the wc and that kills the environment in the game.
  15. maddog1122

    maddog1122 Active Member

    I understand about innocent players being harmed as you refer too , but again we are not really talking about a one time offense, we are talking about the ones who have done this type of stuff over and over, this is going on and could be debated forever and nothing in the meantime gets done or stopped and more innocent people are harmed or quit the games completely.

    True it might not be the correct way for everyone but it will stop the problems, and each person can always go to kano and state their case on a individual case to get back what they lost with the understanding that if they do get their right to speak in chat again and they do it again then they will be banned forever from chat
  16. Kirsten

    Kirsten Well-Known Member

    good luck with that
  17. Kirsten

    Kirsten Well-Known Member

    Be healed to talk, this way the one making noise can be dealt with in game, many who troll saying dumb ass things, are either dead or in the infirmary and just troll on and on calling people names and insulting them while they cannot be touched in the game, new players troll also as stated above, making fun of the game and or players, and know they cannot be touched for 60 days, is another issue and only adds to the drama.
  18. Robert Belrose

    Robert Belrose Active Member

    Ok Kano and fellow players... You do realize that these are all fighting games, don't you? Although I wasn't there I'm almost sure that when Vikings, Pirates, Mobsters, ect. went to battle that the ones that were new didn't wear red a red smock making them 'untouchable' ,and nobody expected the banter to represent that found while in church. If players want discussions that emulate that then go to a church social- these are fighting games and that is enhanced by chat.

    The solution to the problem is rather simple- stop trying to pretend that we come here to exchange recipes and let the games be what they started out being- Fighting games for people to disperse built up tensions, aggressions, or whatever else brought them here.
    Make it so players have to be alive to chat.
    Get rid of the protection and you will cut down on the trolling by new players ( whether legit or alts created to troll ).
    If you players don't like what a person is saying they can use the mute button, and if you don't like the general use of the chat then don't open it!
    If you want to cut down on the reports then have a reasonable yet concise guideline of chat limits.. if people are consistently hitting the report button for things that are not outrageous then suspend their chat.. not the chat of the people that enjoy WC for what it should be- another piece of the game.
  19. Birkebeiner

    Birkebeiner Active Member

    I thought we couldn't be bothered as WC just gets flushed. For the most part no one says anything...
  20. Jared

    Jared Well-Known Member

    That's one of the reasons why I don't even open it up anymore.

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