Upcoming Changes to World Chat

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by SparkleMotion, Jan 21, 2017.

  1. SparkleMotion

    SparkleMotion Kano/Apps Support

    Hey everyone,

    Lately there have been a lot of problems in World Chat in all of our games. We've received tons of tickets and reports asking for there to be some solid rules and guidelines, as well as a change in moderation.

    I'm here to tell you that it's happening and that these changes are on the way! We want to improve the chat environment for all of our players, so keep your eyes peeled next week for a clearer set of guidelines and rules, along with the expected enforcement for each.

    All we want for World Chat in our games is that it's a positive place, not riddled with negativity and hurtful comments. I'd like to hear suggestions and requests for what we do going forward, so please comment here! This is meant to be a civil discussion though so anything that isn't adding to the discussion in a positive way will be removed.

    If you're going to comment and ask for your chat privileges back, this is the wrong venue to do it. Shoot us a ticket in support at support.kanoapps.com and we'll discuss it there. :)

    PS. This is the first of many changes to World Chat, there will be more rolling out over the next little while intended to cater to all our types of players!

    [Edit] Someone brought up they were unsure what the previous guidelines might have been, you can check them out here for a general idea: http://support.kanoapps.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/176/0/chat-guidelines
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  2. maddog1122

    maddog1122 Active Member

    thanks sparkles, I for one am all for the negative and hurtful remarks to be ended. Even the trash talk has been getting out of hand. thanks for letting us know
  3. Tony Montana

    Tony Montana Well-Known Member

    I think that when new folks are asking for help, and people jump all over them and make fun of them for not understanding, that person needs to be punished. No need to poke fun or ridicule them for something new.
  4. elrusso08

    elrusso08 Member

    The interesting thing about this is that KANO admits that they have received Thousands of accusations in these last days. The subject of my comment is simple.

    Instead of focusing on what users are saying,write in WC they (kano) should create a minidatabase or dictionary containing all the banned words and then automate the character analysis so that the system simply sends a warning to these writers :)

    We are not all badly spoken and bad people just because someone like JADE, Cdog,BowDaga, Blondi21 and some others are in charge of reporting to anyone they understand that they have hurt their feelings :-/

    It is easy to click on the report and damage a player's reputation. FINALLY Welcome all those changes that benefit the players community :cool:
  5. AlterEgoT

    AlterEgoT Well-Known Member

    I would only recommend 2 things.

    1 that anyone posting someone else's person information be dealt with.

    2 That kano take the time to realize context. A phrasing is often misunderstood without tone of voice or knowing the players. Many of us have been playing together for years and have nicknames or jokes that are in no way harmful but taken out of context in the chat can sound off. So it is important that before taking action there be a bit of checking. See what has come before and after. It may be someone is quoting someone else. or that they are citing an example not discussing alts for example.

    As for the rest, as long as it's clear, many of us do try to stay civil, friendly and helpful. But we do all have bad days and misinterpet. so it would be nice if there is some allowance for oops. And not so many permabans based on one little section of a larger topic.

    Good luck. We are all quite spoiled and easily offended, and our ideas of fun vary. I wouldn't want to have to come up with rules for our groups ;)
  6. JADES

    JADES Well-Known Member

    I still like your idea @ SparkleMotion from post #6 from this thread http://forums.kanoapps.com/threads/chat-updates.25090/
    Kirsten, Skollstein and Debra Otter like this.
  7. Micaylah

    Micaylah Active Member

    I feel there is plain ole trash talk and then there's idiots who just can't shut up and consistently call people some pretty nasty names. There is a difference. How are you going to tell the difference and make the decisions to ban/limit their chat or whatever?
  8. JADES

    JADES Well-Known Member

    TY for the mention of my name, but if any new player has a question while I'm online will answer accordingly and give them any links they may need.. As I will here, and another post not needed by OP, nor I.
  9. maddog1122

    maddog1122 Active Member

    apparently you havent been in mob wars lcn world chat too much, while i agree about posting between friends is one thing, but outright insults and dragging peoples reps or personal information thru the mud is totally different, calling people nasty names or referring them as body parts is way beyond the scope of nicknames. and its on a daily basis and the same people doing it, know exactly what they are doing and that it is against the rules and they don't care. they do it anyways becuz the punishment is just a slap on the wrist to them
    Sir Opinion Alot and Micaylah like this.
  10. maddog1122

    maddog1122 Active Member

    I say do away with any trash talk that drags a persons reputation thru the mud, nasty names, or threats.
  11. AlterEgoT

    AlterEgoT Well-Known Member

    And apparently you didn't read my post correctly. You are quite correct I long ago quit LCN. But I've been the subject of exactly what you speak of a good number of times. I've also been the subject of a ban for saying you thief talking about the HL all in good fun and everyone in the game knew that.

    The problem with blanket statements or rules is that it is darn hard to punish those that are cruel especially repeatedly versus those that have been pushed to the edge.

    I'll present this example. A person goes after someone in world chat. The cross the line from "trash talking" to hateful, spreading rumors, lies and using name calling in a direct and personal way. Others join in to tell the one crossing the line and throws something back at them that may not normally be said by that person. Should the defender be perma banned for standing up to a cruel bully? I think not myself.

    But it is exactly the jumping to conclusions that you did to insinuate that I would have no idea what it feels like to be the subject of such nastiness. I've had folks posting where I work in world chat. How is that cool? I've been called every name in the book. I've had rumors spread and lies repeated. All over a game. I've had threatening messages outside the game through social platforms that were once required to play the game. Kano has a decent idea of some of the things, others they do not. Their hands may be tied regarding messages on social media outside their control but I would urge caution in using the control they DO have in the game against those who wish only to stand up to cruel people who go to such lengths over a game.

    It will be difficult at best to decipher what is good natured and what is going to far. Without being part of the community, common game chat may well be deemed inappropriate but there is killing within the game, thus use of certain phrasing may trigger a "rule" but be totally game related. Thief? Sniping? I'll kill you eventually? Are those wrong? Depends on context. It depends on if there is indication that it is not game related.

    Simply put, Kano can try to better clarify decent behavior for a group that seems to feel they should be free to be as nasty as they want, but with censorship we lose the ability to use world chat to enhance the game. There are often quiet moments within the game, and world chat is a way to get people active within the game.

    Deciphering will be difficult. The truth is, if we would all treat each other with a certain level of respect Kano wouldn't need this thread. But they are asking for input. Not more mud slinging or finger pointing. They need a few voices of reason, not voices that cry I am offended or voice that cry but that's completely part of the game.

    I personally simply wish to point out that we need to all quit reacting so strongly and think through the implications. What seems a simple obvious may not be so simply. Heck by banning the word alt in WC do you realize we often get put in timeout for words that have that in it? I have been in time out more times than I can count for copying the phrase and dealt X amount of damage but only copying the last part of the phrase to reduce clutter. and the word dealt gets me. Shoot it used to ban me if I typed dealt instead of copying it.

    So I stand by what I said. And if you reacted strongly without reading what I wrote about taking it within a larger scope, then perhaps you should reread. I reiterate that it's important to not put blanket rules in place that will shut down chat due to it's restrictiveness. And that things pertaining to a persons personal life (that includes as you stated reps through the mud) and IF Kano looks at context they will see the trends of repeat offenders and if it's harmless horsing around, or to the point of cruel.

    Just because one is offended doesn't make them right.

    ps. For context for those that do not know me. I grew up in this game back when the game solved this stuff themselves. When someone was cruel the entire game kept them dead. Since folks can now stay dead and sit in wc, and there are things in place like protection some of the self policing of jerks has been taken away. But really, we should look at our own game play. What do WE do when we see it? Those that have been around me at all in the game will probably agree, I tell folks to knock it off all the time. If they want to turn their attention to me for it, so be it, I've been there before. Perhaps if more people didn't allow it in their squad and friendships, there would be less of a problem for kano to deal with. But I too have had bad days and come in at the wrong moment and not realized there was more before I got there that led to what was being said. We are human. We goof.

    (I really should go back to staying out of these forums. No good comes from it. I just end up writing a book such as above at 1am)

    I say again, Good luck Kano. You shouldn't have to have this conversation, but I am glad you are seeking input. I wish I was seeing more helpful ideas in here.
  12. AlterEgoT

    AlterEgoT Well-Known Member

    But how do they judge how far is too far? For instance, we have a number of folks that have odd nicknames that sound awful but it's a play on old jokes. To those that play it is not in anyway meant as nasty. Neither party is offended. It's not offensive to the point that reading it will scar anyone. I also cite my example above. You Thief! (I got 10 attacks on the list and you got 1 and got the kill) perhaps it means we feel the person actually steals irl or perhaps we mean the list. How is Kano going to tell?

    I know it may sound simple. But we must remember each of us reads type in a different tone. And if they blanket say anything that could be considered personal or derogatory, then shoot we won't really be able to speak at all with any personality. And if we cannot speak with personality world chat becomes flat and folks do not hang around. When folks do not hang around, things do not happen in the game. If things do not happen in the game people do not play the game.

    I wish I could think of a good answer, but in any of the games I have played it's a problem. How to stop those that are cruel while allowing enough freedom of speech to ensure enjoyment. I've yet to see moderation work well either. Mods get called out for banning folks for saying something against them personally or censoring too often. They get called for not censoring enough.

    Truth of the matter is, they cannot possibly succeed in trying to please everyone. Mods have bad days too. Rules cannot take into account inflection, or context.

    The only useable idea I can come up with is to have a coding where accounts are flagged if a moderator sees something (either via report or a trigger in the wc and once a user hits 5 (or whatever number) it flags for a discussion or a logging of said account's wc. This seems intrusive and none of us really want to feel like big brother is recording everything we say. but perhaps it is something Kano can use to build off. It would at least help them to ascertain when there are repeat offenders. From there a dialog with said user can take place where they explain their tone. If it seems continually towards one player then they can look at what the one player is saying and doing in the game as well. But as is the case with cheating. They would need to build a case. This would include a mechanism that looks for new accounts, as unfortunately folks that are cruel will often go to great lengths to continue to be cruel. Including starting accounts that they keep below listable levels. Building accounts that they keep for 21 days then dropping that one and starting a new one.

    It's a lot more complicated in my opinion than, trash talking vs cruel. It's knowing the culture of the game and the players well enough to spot them or figuring out ways to trigger the system for abnormalities for a kano group to look at. Difficult at best.

    Oops another book. I think I better take my own advice and close the forums ;)

    Thank you for your patience. and good luck.
  13. Demonik1

    Demonik1 Well-Known Member

    The only thing that bugs me about the chat is the banning for non offensive remarks between 2 or 3 people. There are miserable aholes that have no life and nothing better to do than read the chat and just report anything that could possibly be construed as offensive even though they themselves could care less. Example: a friend and I were talking (keep in mind that I'm Jewish) and we both used the word jew referring to myself and both of us were banned for it. Nothing offensive was said, just a jew and his friend using the word jew. There are other instances but I don't have all day. Im just saying that people hitting report shouldn't be an almost automatic ban because that's all they care about. And actually things like that just make it worse because when i know those certain no lifes are online and im probably going to get banned anyway, i make it well worth it meaning i say way more offensive things than I normally would. Which is kind of the exact opposite of what kano wants, right?
  14. Marshal O.P. Rockwell

    Marshal O.P. Rockwell Active Member

    I am proposing the following requirements be met before a comment will post in world chat:
    1. Posting player must be at least level 300.
    2. Posting player may not be under 60 day new player protection.
    3. Posting player must be ALIVE in game.
    This will ensure that in game consequences can be applied to those who post something offensive and it addresses the issue of people starting accounts just to use as a posting platform as has been mentioned in previous posts in this thread. In the case sexually explicit comments or threats that extend beyond the game, I am in favor of stiff sanctions which should include bans from world chat posting & even total game lockout for short time intervals.
  15. Reg Hahn

    Reg Hahn Member

    Not sure I agree with the first two.. WC should be an ideal place for a noob to have questions answered - not everyone wants to wait for a reply on one of the forums..
    Chat should be just that - CHAT.. Too often it's degenerated into the fiefdom of a few individuals who are intolerant of anyone who is not in their clique. To be honest if I was Kano I'd just ditch it. There are plenty of ways to form an internet chat if these groups are that bothered about it, and they could make (and enforce) their own rules. Why should Kano put themselves up as being responsible?
    maddog1122 likes this.
  16. Demonik1

    Demonik1 Well-Known Member

    Good luck going through all this
  17. Navy Chief!

    Navy Chief! Member

    Perhaps, the FIRST thing moving forward is to CLEARLY define for everyone the intent and purpose of World Chat. Once we have a VERY clear understanding of what the intent and purpose is, then everyone should, and I mean SHOULD have a clear understanding of how to behave in there.
  18. celticdog

    celticdog New Member

    i spend like anyone else in this game and i have played long enough to be in wc if i feel like chatting their should be no question if I'm in the hospital or not. it's all part of the game. i do agree that if under protection or under lvl 300 you should not be able to use wc. their are groups and forums to get you far in the game without wc. if you stay past lvl 300 then you can join in on the wc.
  19. Chasity

    Chasity Well-Known Member

    Over on Pirate Clan's Armor/Kong world chat hardly anyone ever "chats" any more, for fear of having their privileges revoked. We've gone full circle. :(
  20. Debra Otter

    Debra Otter Member

    How will Kano distinguish between a friendly bantering, and plain ole being mean? I've seen both in WC. One reason I don't post or even go to WC. On the other hand I have laughed over some things said!

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