[ZS] The Fortitude Bar and You: Tips for The Battle Arena (October 10)

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by mi7ch, Oct 10, 2013.

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  1. Kendall

    Kendall Administrator

    If you were able to move the bar with 100 or so attacks at your best rate, then no matter how much you had you would not have hit any Fortitude.

    You are incorrect with that statement of higher levels being more impacted by this change, level or amount of stamina has nothing to do with the Fortitude, it behaves exactly the same way for all levels.
  2. God of Bacon

    God of Bacon Member

    Wasn't around to play, but it seems as if many of the main guns of arena are unhappy with it, as well as others who weren't even affected being unhappy that the BA has been less active because of it.

    Edit: also a majority of players don't go to the forums and you should know this. I've been in contact with many who don't like it.
  3. Survival Streak 0

    Survival Streak 0 Active Member

    I do believe this post could be a cause for some of the confusion about how it differentiates between players.

    That is just 1 reason....another is...we're playing with people who are reporting different experiences.

    Edit: just for the record this 'update' hasn't impacted me at all, but it has with a lot of my friends....people have quit over it :-/
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  4. polishpimp

    polishpimp Well-Known Member

    Ty for the reply. did u mean to say "not able" to move the bar" in your first sentence?

    So what your saying is it has nothing to do with any type of skill point allocation or activity? It solely depends on the speed in which one clicks? So the strategy that w this was suppose to bring to the arena was to slow down or be punished by getting less bang for your buck per stamina?

    I really dont understand why were having to dance around this. cant u just tell us exactly what the intent for this is and how its triggered?
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  5. Kendall

    Kendall Administrator

    Agreed there is definitely a lot of confusion and varied opinions. From the data we have logged there has only been a handful of participants that even hit the Fortitude bar. Some of those players are here voicing their opinion while others seem to be confused about the feature itself and not impacting other people that they think it should etc.
  6. Kendall

    Kendall Administrator

    It does take into account other factors, speed, quantity, timing etc but if you were not able to make it move I would be surprised if you could with a higher level character etc. Re-reading the original post I am not sure how else to state the intent so I will repeat it here:

    "The Fortitude Bar represents how long you can hit your opponent before taking an impact to the damage you're dishing out. When the bar is green or yellow, then you can use the Stamina slider to maximum effect and hit as hard as you normally do. When you enter the red area of the bar, you'll begin to notice that your attacks are less effective. If you persist during this phase, you will enter cooldown. You'll still be able to attack, but in addition to being weaker there will now be an short interval between you attacks."
  7. Eric

    Eric Administrator

    To clarify the attack counts, when you see someone with 3,000 attacks, that doesn't necessarily mean 3,000 attack button clicks, most use 3 stamina per attack, which will give them 3x the value in their attack stats. If you continue to spread your attacks across multiple targets you can receive even higher attack count opportunities.

    Like any feature update we release we evaluate the data and continue to tune the mechanics for better gameplay. This initial release provides that data, rest assured that this is something we can adjust and will ultimately benefit in creating a stable arena environment for everyone.

    As a reminder the Fortitude level is not tied to any player or target strength, level anything, it's a measure of your repeat attacks on individual targets within a period of time. These values have been tuned to be near impossible to hit, if you feel your account is being nerfed for whatever reason please write into support and you'll receive further explanation.
  8. Just Dreym

    Just Dreym Member

    Ok, so Slave, your saying that targets with over 1 bill health are impossible to take down with mass amounts of attacks? Not true. I had 1 bill 300 mill health and some jerk decided to randomly take me down in under 5 mins early ish on, which was 2 mins before my def mode kicked in.

    VERYlastCHANCE attacked icountsheep and won
    5 hours ago
    1804 wins against since arena start
    VERYlastCHANCE attacked icountsheep and lost
    5 hours ago
    219 losses against since arena start

    I don't have as much stamina as you, I only have 1k, but I was constantly buying refills. No matter how fast I spammed the crap out of my targets I could not trigger the thing. I was trying as best as I can. I had a professional drummer try as well, he could not get that bar to budge either, and i guarantee his fingers move a heck of a lot quicker then yours can. LOL

    Remember how mitch told us we needed to constantly be using the 3 stamina attacks? Why were you not using them the whole time as he had suggested to us last night?

    Other then dying way earlier then I should, I only had 1 target sniped from me. I'm not saying this is a perfect fix or anything but it sure seems to be a heck of alot better.

    Ps im level 2170, if that matters.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  9. slave

    slave Member

    all i use is the 3 attack

    i tripped it all too easily, again i give permission to kano to release details of my account
    why wont they?

    i tripped it on the first big target i went after, i posted the pic showing fortitude bar depleted
    what pisses me off the most is
    my attacks are worth less the more i attack
    thats bs
    my attacks should be worth 100 percent each and every time i use a stam point
    i dont care how many times i have to attack someone, im not going to "spread" it around
    i want to take someone out, and having my attacks depreciate when i go after someone is not making me happy
    im telling you my fortitude bar go downs like the gas gauge on a hummer....

    that is wrong

    near impossible to hit? dude i hit it on the first guy i had large attacks on and it only took a minute....

    you guys didnt believe me when i tripped the throttle
    you guys didnt believe me when i told you my account was slowed
    and now its near impossible to deplete the fortitude bar

    what kind of account is your developer playing?
    is he playing a regular account or a test account?

    im available on a consultant basis.....

    and im not cheap


    this was taken when we got down to top 10, only took a couple of minutes to get this far, does damage multiplier have anything to do with it?

    near impossible is done in just a few minutes, the person i attacked reported i did 1470 attacks (not sure if that is 1470 x3, or 1470/3)
    but it looks to be about 3 clicks per second....thats near impossible?

    they did a total of 800 attacks on me in the same time span, although i had a head start, cuz they didnt know i was attacking them until their page updated
  10. So what

    So what Member

    As ive said IM neither confused or unclear in what I SAW playing

    no 1 the fortitude bar did not show up for me till 1 hr 40 mins into the arena ....hence you were still in my account so I suspect It wasent available for me

    when its absence was apparent it was the equavilent of pushing a small 5kg child up a hill and finding at half way the child weighted 80 kg
    so we talked amongst ourselves ......CERTAIN other accounts had at that point (19 mins in ) 26 thousand atttacks
    whist the best we COULD MANAGE going at it was 8 thousand

    THE SCREEN stayed as norma however after and i counted 50 * 3 stamina i dropped the amount of damage and went yellow
    as soon as i got any account to amber normally at 100 k i went so slow i actually gave the kills to others as it wasent worth 3 stamina for 212 exp (at level 4500 ) i get 267 for undead on ONE

    THERE is a clear and very definate measure to close down certain people and yet let others go unhindered

    you also posted that its not biased yet as I SAID last arena if you can not clear up the RAPID FIRE mouses this arena would be my last
    I posted to get ppl involved and the general apathy ...as in THEY (KANO) WONT DO ANYTHING ....
    has been confirmed to their delight look at last nights fiasco ....told YA .....

    NO 2 The apparent ease in which CERTAIN accounts can outrun to MAX potential in arena as displayed by slave is EVIDENT
    hes not imagining anything , nor making anything up
    DREM pointed out it took me 1800 ATTACKS to take her out she was not in def ...but HEY HO ive double her def in attack
    the calculations on your server are CLEARLY biased ....

    you gambled YOU LOST Im not the only one who can walk and walk i WILL

    IT S YOUR APPARENT DISREGARD .....to those that stayed loyal

    funny the entire faction involved with all the emails and discussions are yet again

    ABSENT from the forum ....as they have correctly pointed out

    you complain (Pog) yet my account is less than yours yet fights better , kills more , wins more and i dont complain ...or as knao likes to say ***HAVE A DISCUSSION ***** YOUR TARGETED POG COS YOU POINT THINGS OUT

    hope they keep you very happy top ten in arena ....go look ....none of the hit a fortitude ...NOT ONE
    all approaching 65 thousand attacks never missed a kill INFACT they snipped so many its almost as if you have a flag out there for them on their screens going ....available kill

    ive had loads of emails for small accounts that i roped into play

    taken out by the top player in the opening 10 mins .....one watched as they were decimated in def mode
    took a total of 226 attacks on 270 thousand health

    and you say impossible on a server

    thanks as befor its a head trip ......one thats over
  11. God of Bacon

    God of Bacon Member

    Lets see here. You blatantly admitted that someone else was playing your account. You apparently think only 2 attacks per second (1800 in 5 minutes divided by the 3x multiplier) is fast and a lot? Also why the hell would a drummer have fast fingers? I played the drums for years and my finger speed NEVER increased. I mean all that time of keeping them in the exact same place holding the drumsticks not moving them has got to make them faster right... You're not making any sense here. Also you can clearly see people getting their bars depleted so why are you saying it's not an issue?
  12. Kendall

    Kendall Administrator

    So from reviewing this thread it looks like only 3 people here actually hit the min Fortitude while the majority weren't even able to move it.

    To help keep the thread on topic, please on limit input on if you actually had an experience with it. It does not help to have players that did not participate but are commenting based on what they have heard etc.
  13. slave

    slave Member

    three people that can or do reply in the forum, im willing to bet there are others out there who wont say a dam thing (and possible for a good reason)

    i would think with your vaunted software you can run a report and find out exactly how many did, but for some reason your not doing that?

    on a side note did you catch any auto clickers?

    i hope you understand the gist of what im complaining about, i dont care that you put a fortitude bar (throttle) whatever you call it
    i do care that my attacks diminish in effectiveness - because that is penalizing high stam accts, and i know i dont have to tell you how much it costs to buy a stam point, but its DOUBLE the costs for any other skill, and when it costs double to assign it, i dont feel it should be discounted!

    i would think that would be painfully obvious, but the fact that you discount stamina in the daily and weekly buffs makes me wonder just what the heck you do think...

    so keep your fortitude bar, but revalue the attack effectiveness, make ALL attacks hit at 100 percent, the fact that your timing me out is enough of a hindrance without having discounted attacks on top of it all - because before we hit top 10 i was getting timed out when the kill was on the line (naturally) not halfway through like you see it on attila
  14. slave

    slave Member

    and i would like to hear from the developer who allegegedly tested this out, which account he used, what the att/def values, were what percentage his skills were and whether he attacked a real account or another test account

    you really want to see whats happening use my account in the next arena and you can watch for yourself how fast the bar depletes and then you can tell me whats going on...
  15. Just Dreym

    Just Dreym Member

    My boyfriend doesn't play ZS. I simply had him test it to see if he could make the stupid thing go off cause his fingers have 10x+ the speed then mine do (I was sitting right next to him), it was just out of curiosity more then anything. I had 1 billion 300 mill health, i was taken out in under 5 mins. Drummers also have repetitive rhythm so when I asked him to do it i wanted to see if repetitive rhythm would set it off. It didn't seem to matter. What the heck kind of drummer are you? Most drummers have way faster then average finger speed, and if you don't im sorry for your girl. LOL

    I never said it was a non issue, mike. I am saying my account was fine. If you want a better example, so was Averys.

    We are supposed to be posting our arena experiences, not attacking each other. I'm not accusing anyone of cheating, or anything like that. I'm just simply posting my own personal experience, so no reason to attack me.

    Also keep in mind I do not use a mouse of any sort, I use a laptop, no mouse. Maybe that has something to do with it?
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  16. polishpimp

    polishpimp Well-Known Member

    Although I didnt move the "fortitude'bar I still have comments and questions because I participated in the ZS arena and it was the weirdest and dullest arena I have ever been in...of course Im gonna wonder if this update had anything to do with it. Why would I just wait and see if someone is going to ask or say what I wanna say or ask? Like most other updates you may very well be considering implementing this in other games and that makes me very interested in this topic. Often times Kano says they are going to continue to monitor and adjust and then they suddenly stop and refuse to comment further . So we have to ask while we have your attention. The slider bar being implemented, adjusted and then ignored is a prime example of what im talking about.

    I did not move the fortitude bar but in fairness I am not at my primary residence either. My mouse here is an old clunker when compared to the one I normally use and the internet speed is also much slower here.

    Im a low level slayer and played just my second ZS arena last night (kanoplay/ms) I took #10 and it looks as if I could have taken #6 had I not decided to go to bed out of boredom. Like i said previously...i hadnt saved up any FP/UN but I managed to eke out about 4400 hits before i ran out. The rest of the time I had to man my defensive stance and use it as wisely as I could. What was different about this arena than any other I had been in is that players were not killing at nearly the same rate. They were attacking in bursts rather than straight thru from beginning to kill, there attacks also appeared to be at a much slower rate than normal. It was if every body was playing the "sniper" strategy. No one wanted to waste stamina bringing anyone down so they all just kept cycling through all the players looking for someone that was being brought down then pouncing like a pack of hyenas. It made for a very long and boring arena (its still going last I checked). I know of a few players that just said screw it and committed suicide. Was this the intent and the result of this new update or just a coincidence?

    If this is the face of the new arena I want nothing to do with it and I certainly dont want it coming to the other games. Not allowing player to go from beginning to end as fast as they can in order to better ensure the kill is just not right, it promotes sniping. Every single opponent I killed I had to snipe, every opponent I took down was sniped from me. Ive always said sniping was a legitimate strategy (pretty much the only real strategy for lower levels), but this was over the top as it appeared to be the main strategy.

    In a couple of my other games there are players that are massive in comparison to players in last nights arena and the difference in levels is extreme. The highest level player in kanoplay MSVC is 5k levels ahead of the #2 player and over 6k ahead of #3 n #4, it gets much much worse after that. The #1 players arena stats are so mammoth that they actually won an arena while not attacking a single time. To take down a player like that a player with the help of others must ALL go All IN and run the risk of being extremely vulnerable. Now with this update players will or at least be potentially handicapped while attacking mammoth targets such as this in that they will have to slow down or even stop in the middle of attacking them. This allows these mammoth accounts extra time to either gain health or successfully wait out the time in which they can go back into defensive stance. Its like giving them a free pass or additional defenses. ABSOLUTELY NOT COOL!

    So basically this fortitude bar is all about slowing down the most active and aggressive players which in return will slow down the arena and allow more opportunity for lesser players, more casual players or snipers to swoop in for a kill reward. Basically you are penalizing the players that not only spend the most FP/UN on stamina refills but also the ones the arena was designed for. The fact that some players will be forced to slow down is basically giving the target some type of unearned additional defense.. Thats about as screwy as adding an attack slider while not scaling back the amount of defensive stance players have.

    This update was introduced as being strategic. Thats complete BS, its a penalty/limit/restriction plain and simple. The only strategy is the strategy that an elite few will have to work out to get around it so to lessen the negative impact it will have on their games. So unlike it was stated it will not be the same for everyone and a specific group of players with a particular style of play was targeted specifically by this update which in return allows for more opportunity for the others. This sounds very familiar to taxing the the rich more so they can give more to the poor. Once again it would seem that Kano is going to retard hard work, determination and success in the name of spreading the wealth. WHY CANT WE JUST HAVE ONE ASPECT OF THESE GAMES WHERE YOU LET US GO BALLS OUT WITH NO RESTRICTIONS? The arena is suppose to be an epic battle where PVP rules supreme and we let fruits of our labors shine....It being turned into just another watered down version of what was sold to us.

    Yep...its all about strategy. I strategically maneuvered my way into 10th place after 10 hrs of mostly sitting around twiddling my thumbs and scored a whopping 5fp for my time and effort.....whats that equate to...a dollar? Five minutes later I went to one of my other games made a single click on a hunter challenge and scored another 5FP in about .0oo5 seconds (would have been faster but I got the "Another action is currently in progress. Please try again.")and it didnt cost me any stamina. How about we leave the hunter challenges and stuff to the less active and passive crowd and leave the arenas to the PVP bad asses?
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2013
  17. im the beast

    im the beast Member

    i have to agree with everything slave is saying here it happened to me at a very fast rate....now in my faction there were a few others saying they were having some issue with theres droping fast while others couldnt get it to drop any... now i dont know what to say about that....
  18. There Will Be Blood

    There Will Be Blood Active Member

    If they are near impossible then why am I hitting it? I find it really hard to believe that my click speed is vastly superior to everyone else in the game. I wrote into support and received a ridiculous answer calling this an "extra layer of strategy and help players apply their attacks where they will be most effective" Really, that is beyond laughable. So basically just a choice few of us get to be strategic? That's not very fair to everyone else, why do we get to have all the fun?
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2013
  19. Yeah, so, again. . If you plan to "adjust" this to pacify these people, while you're at it, please undo the changes (of greed) you implemented to FW in the last roll-out as well. Thanks.
  20. polishpimp

    polishpimp Well-Known Member

    Thats exactly the kind of thing Ive been talking about for years and they just dont get it. They think were all complete morons. You can put lipstick on a pig but its still a pig. Who ever wrote you that response was probably sitting there thinking to themselves... "I wonder why these players get so frustrated and pissed off" ...completely oblivious to the fact we know the difference between a crap sandwich and a BLT. Calling it an "An extra layer of strategy" is insulting. Using that logic I suppose one could call the bounty delay "another layer of strategy" as well. Its not a limit ,restriction, delay or a penalty for succeeding....its a gift from the Gods and we should all be grateful and throw money at them as a sacrifice. It makes me sick how Kano treats some of their players sometimes. Im so tired of getting crapped on in favor of the masses who wont even be around next month. They keep running off their most dedicated players in terms of length of time played and coin spent and wonder why their numbers are faltering.....
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2013
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