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Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by foxysiren, Oct 16, 2015.
I have over 4500 energy and still wish RAIDS were never introduced to the game
Raids are something that makes the game more interresting, love them or hate them. 2 things would be nice though... if a player puts in over double the effort (2000 attack and 2000 heal actions) then they should have a gaurenteed Superior drop whereas minimum effort should only give Common. Also (and I believe plenty think the same) that the punishment for killing a raid party is too lame.
You will never see them offer a guarantee for a superior item to anyone other than the raid owner, and they shouldn't. The only thing more effort should guarantee is more xp. As I have suggested before, they should eliminate any bonus xp just for joining, reduce the xp given just for doing minimum, and gradually increase the xp done for more than minimum actions. The more you do beyond min, the more xp/stam awarded. This will entice people to do more than minimum actions so a boss owner doesn't have to do 2-300M himself. As for anyone that perishes a raid, the only people that should be punished are themselves and the raid owner for inviting such a nitwit to the raid. Perish 2 raids and you are banned from joining ANY raids (or opening them) for 6 months.
Plus if they add the 'idiot button' that will warn if an attack will perish the raid, then we don't have to worry about the people that like to leave a raid with almost no health so the next person that opens the page with an attack perishes it.
Think @StoneCK has the best solution (increasing xp past the minimum and adding an idiot button), and what about also raising the minimums depending on the tiers too?
An idiot button isn't a good solution, but it should be easy to implement for kano. I sadly doesn't solve the issue of a player constantly putting a raid in red, so not a solution but at least a decent patch upon the wound
There is no way to prevent a player from putting the RAID party into the red unless Kano ended the possibility of killing the RAID party altogether. Stone's idea is perfect. It prevents the next person from being set up. What you are looking for Dcasso is a solution for not having to heal for a player who is using their stamina and refuses to heal. That is just something that happens when you invite certain players to the RAID and is the fault of the owner for not being more selective or posting the RAID public. The issue that Stone is trying to prevent is when the RAID party dies and everyone is punished with poor exp and most often than not the RAID is abandoned after the raid party perishes. The problem with people attacking and not healing when they are done with their attacks or people attacking when they see someone else attacking and then not healing is just part of the game. The difference is when they leave it to almost no red left so that just one more attack kills the RAID party and not only screws over the RAID but puts that player who was set up to accidentally kill the raid party at risk of being banned.
I think Kano should consider ENDING the possibility of killing the RAID party.... just make it when it gets past the red that you can no longer do any more attacks until healed. And there already is a "punishment" or disadvantage for getting out of the green as the damage done drops. Why bother with issues of people killing the RAID party and everyone being hurt by one idiots actions?
I do fully agree on what the problem is, I even posted 4 examples in the forum of the issue, while it was going. BUT what is there to stop a player from just 1 stam a raid until it is red an endless amount of times. Yes you don't loose the 10% xp for the raid party death, but you will still see a raid, no one is willing to attack, since they have to heal up from deep red every time.
that problem is solved by better selection when the owner does the invites.
It might just be me but this thread seems to have gotten a little off track from the original post; more XP. A couple of ideas mentioned in the thread I really liked: progressive XP - the more you attack/heal the amount of XP earned increases, since healing is such a large part of raid bosses increase the amount of XP earned per heal. This would hopefully encourage more damage and more healing.
This is the real solution. However, I think I have a reputation of always killing off my my RAID boss and never once have I ever had a RAID boss go unfinished. Last RAIDS I completed four RAIDS that I opened and I did over 60 million on two and over 100 million on the other two. One RAID a month or so ago I did like 150 million damage to make sure it finished. The problem that I have is finding people. I am not sure why this is a problem since my RAID is a guaranteed finish. I don't know if I am online at the wrong times or people are afraid they won't have time to do minimum if I kill my off too soon. But I can see why some people open their RAIDS up to public trying to get them filled. One of my problems might be that I am not in a large syndicate so posting in syndicate for members to join even when I am long offline..... I rely on finding each person at a time they are online as well as myself. But of course, I do that and avoid ever posting public. Many players after one or two days start to see time running out and start posting in public trying to find anyone who is willing to help. My biggest suggestion in that case if Kano makes no changes...... post the tier 2 and tier 3 links but avoid making the Tier 1 links public since on Kong..... AND THIS STATEMENT IS FOR KONG ONLY - NOT FB LCN, PC, VC..... it tends to be players within the Tier 1 ranks who are screwing over RAIDS on purpose. Most of your T3 players have been around a long time on Kong LCN and everyone knows who they are - there are still quite a few who do minimum and done but that is a different issue and subject than purposely trying to screw over a RAID and the people in it.
The heading was "RAID BOSSES" and I think like any normal conversation and discussion, it has evolved into a topic regarding RAIDS overall and issues with RAIDS. It is not always practical to start a new thread for every change or concern that players want to discuss.
But regarding "More exp" - I would imagine you have a certain group of players who hate RAIDS period and any increase to experience would make them hate the RAIDS even more. LOL I suspect these are players are players who spend very little, do not participate much in the RAIDS, and as a result find RAIDS putting them at a disadvantage to those who are getting stronger and leveling faster using RAIDS. Any change that increased the exp per stamina in RAIDS in any way would make that disadvantage even greater.
Then you have those players who are spending and using the RAIDS and would welcome any change that made their investment worth even more. Regardless, they will continue to spend and use the RAIDS to help them get stronger.
And finally you have a third group..... this group has done the math and found that RAIDS the way they are structured and for what they personally have had to invest in them is not worth it unless they are doing minimum and moving on. These players realize that doing more than minimum decreases the experience per stamina, doing more than minimum makes the return for their investment a bad investment, and have found that paying for other players to get a reward is not worth the cost or an increase in their own reward. These players are the ones mostly looking for an increase in the experience such as been suggested in many posts above. These are the players who want there to be an incentive to be the one doing more than minimum and spending more than the other players in the RAID and doing more than 10x the damage of other players. These are the players that realize if they are going to do 100 million damage in a single raid it has to make sense and has to offer something more than doing 10 million in 10 raids.
Spot on. This would be great to implement.
I think I disagree with the last part.... " and they shouldn't". From an economical stand point, anyone who dumps say 10,000 actions into a raid and gets a common while 5 other plays dump 2000 actions and get lucky with a superior makes it foolish for any player to ever do more than minimum. If they are looking for levels, better off doing a higher number of raids instead of a higher number of actions in fewer raids.... the experience calculates higher with fewer actions when calculating the bonus experience and more RAIDS means higher chance of superiors when looking at RAIDS for items. There is no practical reason to do more damage EXCEPT of course, the obvious..... someone has to do it if the RAIDS are going to be completed. But why be that player?
If the experience increase the more actions you did.... and the chance of a superior increased greatly by the number of actions to a point it was guaranteed, then at least the people doing more actions and being the player who does complete the raid for everyone else has a personal reason for doing it and not just because "someone has to do it". And it could be tiered as well..... make it so that you have to do like a minimum 4000 actions before having a chance at a superior. And from there the chance increases for every 1000 actions more completed on that raid.... for a rough example:
4000 = 5% chance
5000 = 10% chance
6000 = 15% chance
7000 = 20% chance
8000 = 25% chance
9000 = 30% chance
10,000 = 35% chance
11,000 = 40% chance
12,000 = 45% chance
13,000 = 50% chance
14,000 = 55% chance
15,000 = 60% chance
16,000 = 65% chance
17,000 = 70% chance
18,000 = 75% chance
19,000 = 80% chance
20,000 = 85% chance
21,000 = 90% chance
22,000 = 95% chance
23,000 = 100% chance
And 23,000 actions for most players is about 4 to 5 refills if you estimate that most players probably have 5k stamina and 5k energy. Of course, for Tier 1 players this is probably not the case but maybe T1 players should not get superiors so easily and the fact is that for most T1 players, a common item is already pretty awesome compared to job drops available and bosses from cities they have already reached.
So based on 4 to 5 refills - that is 40 to 50 fps. That should be guaranteed a superior.
That is just a rough idea. Just something to look at and something to change if a better idea comes along.
If they go with the concept of a sliding scale for xp, the more you do the better xp/stam you get, then the idea of guaranteeing a superior item is a non-starter. The enhanced xp is the reward in and of itself. The randomness of a superior item is like the bonus prize and is just more fun to get when you don't know you are getting it.
And, as is human nature, we always want more. More xp for everything we do. Its not reasonable for Kano to continue to increase the xp for everything we do, whether it be jobs or raids. I thought it a reasonable give and take to suggest an elimination of bonus xp when joining a raid and a reduced xp for doing minimum actions, but then a sliding scale of increases proportional to the amount of actions done (including more xp for healing beyond minimum). At the end of it, Kano will only award slightly more than they are now, but more of it will go to the people that are spending for the refills to do more.
For me I felt the most important thing was to actually save the raids from dying out on Kong and make them worth while doing for the 'higher' levels.
If no one is going to pay to complete the raids then it won't really matter if anyone perishes them or not.
The player base on Kong is small compared to the other platforms.
I know myself I have done lots on raids just to get them completed, sometimes I feel like I have spent my real cash just for others to do minimum and get a drop.
There are a few ways to tweak the raids but can it be done sooner rather than later....Please?
Isn't it kind of later already, foxy
but not too late...almost, but not quite.
also you want to fill it fast and kill it within first day to get max xp off killing the raid so alot are pushing this also, we have asked that they do not base reward xp off the kill time of the raid. And saying dont go public is such a old and been stated and its been argued that casual players do not know the people like the daily players so when you say this you are only catering to the daily players and not the other half of the players out there.