[LCN] PvP Balance Change v2 - October 4th 2017

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Scoughman, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. Sir Opinion Alot

    Sir Opinion Alot Well-Known Member

    the overall att n def is based off a set multiplier of the skill points and ur inventory is based more on the upper part of the items say old items that is 1/3 the strength of new items but stronger than new job items it leave you no choice but to spend if your target has a larger inventory of the new stuff the problem is the only way to be competitive even with the change of the skill points it effect my account way more of a bad way then anything it made almost everyone on my fight list 30% stronger than what my account was before. If it is left to only spend at my level to stay competitive well then its hard for some who cant spend like the people have now 5 yrs ago people did not buy the items like this, boss drops and items was very close in stats then the game was based more off of skill point placement and having a good boss share cause if you didnt have boss drops and rewards without the high att and def you was not worth nothing but now you have to have a account based solely off high amount of limited items and little placement of skill points, this is a very hard thing since you have the veterans 5 or more yrs that made this game last and enjoy the non mafia wars part you know the reason why they stayed there and we stayed here. At some point in the next few yrs after youve spent a good amount then one day bam your stuff aint worth nothing and you seem to have to put that much back in to just play well its absurd.
    LuscLadyGreywolf likes this.
  2. JADES

    JADES Well-Known Member

    "One of your builds"???
  3. Jack Smith

    Jack Smith New Member

    The math does not work out for 1 skill point being equal to +29 toward attack and/or defense. I am level 2718 with 1879 mob. I just lost to a level 2890 level player with 1035 mob. We have been playing for the same amount of time. I have more items related to Raid Boss and monthly calendar which are stronger than most other items. They may have a few more high level regular boss items, but only a few. So, item for item we are pretty much even, except I have 844 more of each item. If I multiply the value of my weakest items by 844, which should offset any imbalance there might be with our matched loot assuming their's are stronger, and probably even be a lower representation of my loot advantage, I should have a minimum loot advantage of over 175,000. Assuming a +29...If they added 1 defense skill point every level, they would have a +45095 advantage over my personal attack. If they added 2 defense skill points every level, their personal skill advantage would be 128905...still shouldn't be enough to overcome my loot advantage. To even come close to overcoming the loot advantage they would need to add 2.5 skill points to defense for every level-up for +29 to work. That doesn't leave much for attack or health, let alone energy and stamina which are required if you ever want to level. Given that this player has leveled faster than me, and has more high level boss loot, I have to assume they have a good amount of stamina at the least. So it is not possible they have 7225 personal defense at level 2890, which is about what they would need for +29 to work And none of this even includes the percentage I lost by which varies between 5 and 10 percent, or the fact that when they attacked back, they won, which means they are overcoming loot advantage in attack mode as well. If it is a straight up value, +100 would barely work in this specific fight if they added 1 defense skill point each level...maybe. But I suspect it is not a straight value, but rather a multiplier of some sort increasing loot value and critical hit value. But honestly, I don't really know. In any event, +29 does not add up mathematically to what I am seeing.
  4. Jack Smith

    Jack Smith New Member

    Kano knows exactly what that kind of spending does. That's the whole point to role play games. Do people really not understand this concept? All RPGs...ALL OF THEM!!!...have exactly the same business model...PAY TO WIN...PERIOD.

    What that means is, you can choose any of dozens of RPGs to play, and if you are willing to spend massive amounts of money you can be the top player no matter how long others have been playing. That is exactly the point of RPGs. There really isn't any more to it than that...ever. All the whining in the world isn't going to change that fact. If you have been playing LCN for 8 years and spent nothing or very little, I can come into the game, spend thousands of dollars, and in no time have a stronger character than you...unless you are also willing to spend grotesque amounts of money. If you don't like it, don't play RPGs.

    Kano's mistake, in my opinion, was to attempt to pacify long time players by stifling newer players who are willing to outspend them. RPGs are pay to win. And every one I have seen is also keep paying to keep winning. Players may not like this, and may even concider it unethical, but that is how it is. Mafia Wars made the mistake of allowing freeloaders the ability to keep pace with paying customers to the point where less and less were willing to pay...no more Mafia Wars. Now all those big spenders are here...get over it, or spend more money. Just stop asking Kano to make it "fair" for long time players because that is not the business model, and it's pissing off the paying customers.
  5. Kirsten

    Kirsten Well-Known Member

    You must be an ex mafia wars pkayer with that atittude of course you can spend people have played kano games for years not just 552 days plus, kano can do what they want but the messed up with raids and a couple of other ways not a big deal in light of important life things but to pay to rush thru a game is a cheat/shortcut might be legal might be okay with some but it is nothing to be impressed about
  6. Jack Smith

    Jack Smith New Member

    It's not an attitude. It's a recognition of the way things are. Yes I am ex-Mafia Wars...what of it? It doesn't change the truth of things. That RPGs are pay to win and keep paying to keep winning is not an attitude or an opinion, it's a simple a statement of fact. And it's also a fact that it is not specific to LCN. All RPGs are the same. New players can pay to win now. If they couldn't, new players wouldn't play...or pay.

    I mean really...why is this so hard to understand? Paying to rush through the game isn't a cheat, it's the RPG business model. It's what they (Kano) WANT players to do. That's how they make money. Old players...you know...the players who chose this game over Mafia Wars years ago...have the same situation as they did before Mafia Wars players came here...keep paying to keep winning. That's the way it was. That's the way it is. And that's the way it is going to stay. Not an attitude...just a clear view of reality. I have no intentions of dumping thousands to be the best, so I never will be, and I am fine with that. I know for a fact if I play this game for ten years and do everything right, a new player can jump in and have a better character than me as fast as he can spend his money...and I am OK with that too.

    It's kind of like getting pissed because I have been paying for my Prius for 5 years and some guy drops $150,000 and is driving a Tesla today. I mean, if you have been playing a role playing game for what...8+ years?...and you still don't understand how they stay in business, what does that say about your thinking? Not an ex-Mafia Wars player's attitude...just not delusional.

    And just so you can better understand this...I am not saying I like it. And I am not saying I think it's right. I am only saying I understand it...nothing more. And I understand that if I don't like it, I don't have to pay...or play.

    ...and here is another insight for you...Mafia Wars did EXACTLY the same thing in that when I started, purchased loot had att/def of maybe 40/40. When the game ended, you could buy items for the same money that had att/def of 500/500 or more. Long time players had EXACTLY the same complaints about money they spent early on for items that were now beyond worthless, or that new players could buy their way to the top. Near the end of the game, most purchased loot would go inactive in a month or two from loot you could gain through normal game play spending no money at all. There were a lot of other issues with the game you don't have here, but in this way LCN is EXACTLY like Mafia Wars. Maybe that is why I see things differently than long time LCN players...I have witnessed both games and see very little difference. Both games have/had players willing to pay to win so that freeloaders and casual spenders have no chance to be a top player.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  7. Jack Smith

    Jack Smith New Member

    I have used skill points for personal attack and defense. Based on my personal skills + items...for +29 to work, the player I lost against would have to have used 14,000 skill points on attack and defense combined. That is more skill points than we have in total at our level. It is not possible for attack/defense skill points to be +29 of items.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  8. MrPLOD

    MrPLOD New Member

    We built our profile according your rules. We spent many hours to find good bosses´s rewards. We spent many time (day and night) in challenge events to get as many rewards as possible, and now you decided to change the rules?! What kind of reliabitiy you expect we get from you. I started to be defeated by players with less hundreds of mobs and weaker items and you call it "more fun to all players". to whom? Those players which only concern is filling att and def skills with SP´s, neglecting all I described before?!
    You call these changes "BALANCING" and "more fun and competitive within your fight range"?! whooooo, unbelievable!
    You seek for balacing? well, I only see one way: stepback your changes or release our SP´s once we need to rebuild our profile according your new rules!
  9. Kirsten

    Kirsten Well-Known Member

    This is not the first time Kano has implemented changes, and we all survived, But kano did say they are looking into it.
  10. BLU 1SE

    BLU 1SE New Member

    not really sure why ex-mw's peeps are moaning about skill poīnt strength, if i remember correctly, loot came second to att and defence and only came into play if both players were equal in skills, so its not a new thing, makes thīngs more of a challange rather than buying yh way to the top with loot, and more fun reaching and beating higher levels defence without a credit card, just saying :/
    Kirsten likes this.
  11. Jack Smith

    Jack Smith New Member

    Again, for those that appear unable to grasp the concept. Role play games are pay to win. Right has nothing to do with it. Fair has nothing to do with it. All RPGs are designed, on purpose, to allow money to buy the best character now, and requires money to continually be have the best character. whining about it, or crying about it, or complaining about how unfair it is will never change the nature of RPGs. You all can blame ex-mafia wars players, but that's kind of like blaming Bush for the state of the union eight years after he left office. Pay to win, and keep paying to keep winning existed long before ex-mafia wars players, and will continue to exist until this game fades into memory.

    I am ex-mafia wars. I don't pay to win, so I don't win. I don't like Kano changing the "rules'. But it has nothing to do with being an ex-mafia wars player. It has to do with choosing to build a character following a specific path only to find that LCN is a moving target. I don't see that long time LCN players like it all that much either. They have been complaining since I came here. Blame ex-mafia wars player if you want, but they...we...have nothing to do with it. From what I can see, Kano has been what the are today for far longer than the presence of ex-mafia wars players.
  12. BLU 1SE

    BLU 1SE New Member

    never mentioned blaming anyone, i am ex-mw's, just saying dont moan, you had elites in mw's but you could catch some with high att skill points by beating there defence skill point, of course loot still plays a part in build when skill points are the same but that should'nt be the only thing that counts, its a system that worked before, why is it a problem now, the spenders will still spend but at least you may beat some if you heavy att skill points over weak defence skill points, kanos fault for not seeing the loot impact sooner, but now they have, they are addressing it...just my opinion :/
    Kirsten and Randy Jenkins like this.
  13. Randy Jenkins

    Randy Jenkins Active Member

    Mafia wars the last several years was corrupt with script use to the point Zynga had no choice but to shut it down the spending slowed to the point Zynga quit making money off the game. Having multi accounts one being the main account and having several Kami accounts that self leveled the main accounts didn't have to spend because they earned massive amounts of rp's. I know all about Mafia wars I spent lots of money until I was introduced to kami accounts after that never spend another cent on the game didn't need to if I needed more skill points I would use my scripts on my kami accounts to attack my main and get me enough rp's to buy massive amounts of skill points. So when you say you don't see much difference between the games you must be blind. Kano does not sell skill points so these points have to be earned and can't be purchased so shouldn't skill points be the main factor in winning and losing fights. I would think at least 60% of the reason a player wins the fight should be based on skilled attack and Defense not loot stats
    Kirsten and BLU 1SE like this.
  14. Jack Smith

    Jack Smith New Member

    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  15. Kirsten

    Kirsten Well-Known Member

    Believe me you do not want caging, no one likes a cager, I want them to remove them from PC, when you have a level 27K plus still caging , a feature meant for new players who don't have full clan yet, it becomes a shortcut for assholes,
  16. Jack Smith

    Jack Smith New Member

    Yeah...I know all about mafia wars scripts, kamis, and all the other bullshit you felt the need to relive here regarding Mafia Wars. When I said I didn't see much difference between the two games I was referring to the concept of pay to win, keep paying to keep winning, and only that concept. The rest is bullshit you added. I know it was very hard to follow. Hope this clarification helped.
  17. DumbDumb

    DumbDumb Member

    So based off a response to a ticket I sent in, Kano plans to make further changes to make A&D even more important than the last change. Which to me means they plan on either moving to where their first change was or past that (based off their own words). So for ANYONE, regardless of when you started playing, if your attack and defense aren't double your level or more prepare to lose your fights against people your range. Forget about beating people a higher level than you, as they have more skills. Don't bother wasting stamina on big bosses or raids (unless you plan on leveling) to get weapons as they will literally provide little benefit as witnessed from their first change. Again, based off the first change buying any weapons (sale or not) will certainly be a bad idea, as their only benefit are very likely in the event of identical skills with someone. Which is going to be rare, as we all build our accounts different.

    For the minority of you that have double, or more, A&D for your level. You are set! Against your own fight list and lower anyways. If a higher level attacks you I guess grab your ankles and say 'thanks kano!' As any equalizer is likely going to be reduced to nothing.

    As you level, others will build with A&D as well so if you lose now you will most likely continue losing. I think that's a cold hard reality for the majority of accounts - and it's going to get worse as the benefit of boss drops lessens.

    For those of you that are going to keep playing, put everything into A&D. Nothing else. If you have trouble leveling, find a new game your chances of fixing your acct are probably minimal at best.

    They really should give EVERYONE, an option to restart their account from level 1 with all the fp's they have purchased. New or old, as their changes are going to completely change the landscape of the game and most accounts will likely never be able to recover.

    Edit: I would not be an acct needing to reset. Im over 2X for A&D. But nearly everyone I know in the game is being affected negatively already. And worse is coming
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  18. Kirsten

    Kirsten Well-Known Member

    well their choice , everyone has a choice, and it is never ever too late to change goals, this is not the first time people had to change the way they were building, raids were a big change, if ya did not have alot of stam or energy but were high in any of the other skill point areas, there was a re focus, ya making much more out of it than you need to, it is a game FFS , it does not affect world peace.
  19. RafeDavid

    RafeDavid Well-Known Member

    How you allocate skill points is strategy. Spending is a choice. Strategy should outweigh choice.

    I see comments about being attacked by higher levels and taking it. Higher levels can't just attack lower levels. The lower level has to be the instigator so reap what you sow.

    The problem is folks want to get to the top quickly and with just about anything you build it too quickly you are doomed to fail.

    Even before the PVP change I would see lower levels putting way too much into energy/stamina. I would warn them that will make you weak. Prophecy fulfilled.
    Kirsten likes this.
  20. DumbDumb

    DumbDumb Member

    Kano shouldn't have been selling stuff in this case. Frankly, they should stop selling it outright now. Them selling it is a conscience decision to deceive people into believing that it'll make them stronger. Especially, when they have more changes planned to further weaken the benefit of weapons/armor/vehicles.

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