[VC] Guild Wars Open Discussion

GW

Guild War is stonedead - it's already ruined with cheating, and it makes no sense whatsoever.

sorry for saying this, but you must go back to the drawing board and come up with something new.

 

Sore loser remark if ever there was one.

The Guild War feature appears now to be balanced: the more your online and diligent in reading the attacks you have, the higher your score will be. End of story. This applies to level 1's to level whatevers'. Your bounty protected i.e. no War Points in most bounties from high level to low level, with a protection to the higher level from the lower by stuffing them into regular rivals. You can't bully anyone if they attack you and only follow the rules of engagement. Frankly, its something else to do online in the battlefield and that is good news for most VC players who understand the rules.

 

Eric, what award do we get for participating in these war games, the same as for your GP's??

 

Responses for the past few posts:

@BLACKDETH - no bounty prices are calculated the same, it may look high because in a war theres more bounties per person which will increase that persons bounty cost multiplier. Only thing thats different is the level range up and down you can bounty for points.

@Mungrel - being able to clear specific rivals from your list is in the development queue.

@Olaf - the changes since release for bountying for points included increasing the level range up and down for players you can bounty, so I'm not clear how you were not getting points Friday and now receive points for the same target.

@anglo - Guild wars is an advanced feature to increase high level pvp activity, one of the biggest demands in the game for the past year. Low level players should not participate alone unless they have a supportive guild. We are however evaluating this feature post release and taking in all feedback such as yours into consideration.

@Dutch - There are leaderboard rankings for Guild Wars, Trophies as well as XP rewards given out at the end of each season. The XP reward for Wars is based on how long the Guild participated in the war and the resulting rank. There is a minimum XP reward so even if you didn't rank well but participated the xp is beneficial.

 

#1 Eric: "Attacks: If a war opponent is within XP range, on your Guilds War Rival list or in your Rival List, you can attack that player 5 times before you reach your daily limit for that opponent. ~~ Points are only credited to the attacker."

#5 Kendall: "The 5-attack limit only counts when a player is out of your normal range and has not attacked you directly but has attacked someone in your guild. It will open up your rivals.

No bounty traps and counters do not add points, but they will still work in a Guild War attack."

#12 Kendall: " Originally Posted by polishpimp
if i attack someone and they have me countered...does that count as one of their 5 attacks?
Yes it does."

#134 Kendall: "A higher level can only attack a lower level if they have attacked someone in their Guild."




#120 Atheistic Satanist: "as said before, the rules were made CRYSTAL clear"



After that bit of fun I have to say I agree with Erik in #201, in that the whole concept is totally flawed.


This is evidenced by the fact that of the 1,000 guilds that are eligible to participate in guild wars barely 30 have done so to any significant degree. Take away the War Points aspect and there is very little difference compared to what players can already do (more or less). For example, place on war rivals list = attack back then hit the 'ask for help' button.

Instead of wasting time on this what they should have been working on is fixing the battle list. With monthly traffic of around 40,000 why is it so difficult for the high level player to maintain a populated battle list and if you can't do that I'm sure some kind of handicapping arrangement could be arranged. I'm sure even Polishpimp would accept the idea of a fair fight, once in a blue moon, if it gave them the chance to fight a real viking (as opposed to a Valhalla offering)

The feature that everyone was clamouring for was Guild vs Guild not Player vs Guild. I suppose that was why there was so much initial confusion in the 2 days from the announcement of Guild Wars until the actual start (well for all of us who did little more than read the forums news and updates anyway). All those players stupidly thinking that a Guild War was anything to do with a war between guilds. I suppose the thinking behind the name was that, "A feature where, if you are in a war guild, you can attack someone from a different war guild then everyone from that war guild is allowed to attack you and everyone get points attacking but not defending and the guild who's players have spent the most time, effort and coins getting these points tops the war leaderboard when the war season finishes at the, as yet, unannounced end date", wouldn't roll off the tongue as easily.

I know that some of the (at max.) 750 in the 30 guilds have been very vocal in their desire to be able to get at low-level players in order to dominate and humiliate them, but you must also cater for the silent (and overwelming vast) majority too.

 

Erik could you expand on your statement above? What do you find confusing and as for the "cheating" please send in any suspicion to support.

 

Agreed ...

I agree Fully.. and after reading more into this matter .. I say give the Guild Wars a shot .. if you want some good feedback ... add in a market within the settlers guilds so we can earn xp also maybe sell Weapons too our Allies and trade empires with lower LVLs . . all we are asking is give us a hug relaxx and take in some feed back GIVE PEACE A CHANCE one AXE at a time.

 

Thanks for the feedback, above are my comments.

 

At first glance, I like the addition. It's nice to see some energy injected into the game again as I believe it was becoming
quite a bit stagnant. The fighting is more frequent, the bounty list is lighting up again and by the number of replies to this thread, you've created a stir, so well done there.

My VC character is somewhere in the middle so my opinion should be somewhat balanced. Where as I can now hit many more lower levels, who open themselves up, I certainly can't bully them any more than I could before GW's when I was lucky enough to get the opportunity. In the same light, I get the living pulp beat out of me by the many more who are a higher level than I am. This is all part of the game, and the guild war infusion has brought back much of the fury(as much as one can have in a text based game) that there was in the beginning, before the game became "boss" heavy. With this being said, I find no problems with the guild wars feature, it is a welcome addition.

However welcome though, it is new and far from perfect and changes I'm sure are necessary. What I think is flawed though is making changes during the course of season in progress as that skews the outcome. Shouldn't the flaws be noted, and subsequently changed at the beginning of a new season?

Overall, thank you for adding some spice back into the game, even if it is a direct result of my death count rising rapidly... but isn't that the point?

 

Guild wars WAS a great idea.....but thats where it ended. The reasonings from which the idea was born were well intended...but that to is where it ended. Guild wars was promised to be for those that wanted PVP action...especially for those of a more seasoned level, it promised to offer a chance at more strategy instead of just the hum drum monotony of simply clicking away . What did we get??? we got an even more restricted scaled down version of the same game within the game....YEA!

If this feature was intended for those players which u say it was developed for....then why are u caving to the complaints of those in which it was not intended? Wasnt one the ideas to divert the attention of the more aggressive players away from those players who preferred a more passive approach to the game? you know....those same players that got the privacy feature and every other update for the last 2 years. So if that was the idea...then why are u now restricting are access to those players that have actually opted in to this newest feature? Seems to me......that if someone wants to "bully" a lower level....they're just gonna go do it anyways regardless of which feature there in especially if they r limited in the feature designed to give them more action. Lets face it....there is no such thing as bullying in a game such as this, and what people deem as bullying,,,can not and will not ever be stopped, at best all u can do is try to separate it...which is what I thought u were trying to do

There're far more low to mid players than high leveled players.....the low to mid level players already have a way larger fight list and as much availability to every other feature as the higher levels. So in a feature that is designed to score points for aggressive play...what do u guys do.....u limit the higher rated players ability to score as many points as the lower levels by limiting who they can score on.


Strategy? seeing how u guys pretty much scrapped the entire original scoring system.....what strategy is left? Basically....The winner each week will come down to the guild with the most active players....exactly the same as gamer points, thats why I filled my guild with the most active and dedicated players(that weren't complete Asses or cheats) I could find and thats exactly why we dominate season play and demolished everyone the first week of guild wars.

Its no coincidence that the most active and dedicated players are of a higher level KANO....thats what it takes to get there.....you should know this....its those players who have gotten u to where u r today. Theres a saying...."Dance with the girl u brought............". You havent danced with that girl in a long time Kano, as a matter of fact...all u did was pluck her a flower from the neighbors yard , drove her to the dance and then left her sitting there as u went looking for another girl.

All I ever hear is how u need new players or that u need to keep the lowers that u have now. Well maybe just maybe u should keep the players that have been with u all this time happy, What do the lowers u have today have to look forward to? The same neglect u offer the higher levels? What exactly is there incentive to level? because once they get there....the big reward is just a bunch of limitations and the promise of updates that never come.

Ive played this game a long time and have watched thousands of players come and go, but still to this day I still get tons of clan requests from new players, but what Ive also seen is The vast majority of players that were around for great lengths of time have gone bye bye....thats where your problem lies Kano....The girl u brought to the dance simply got tired of waiting on u. One of Kanos greatest attributes has always been your willingness to listen and respond to the players....unfortunately this is proving to be your downfall as well. Your listening way to much to the whiny lower levels that just want everything handed to them. Its time u throw them in the lake and let them sink or swim.....let the strong survive and breed a strong base, if u dont thin the herd u end up with what u have now....a bunch of cry babies whining for more.


I dont know about anyone else...but I couldnt possibly recommend to friends or family that they spend there hard earned money or time on a game and its developers that reward dedication with limits, restrictions and neglect while catering to the unproven , unworthy pampered whiners of the world. Seems to me u got it ass backwards and have lost sight of what made u great in the first place

Thanks for the great update!

 

I agree, Polish, the game was much more brutal in it's starting days, fully intended for PvP-Experience. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending how you look on it, the PvP-Aspect got toned down with time, pure PvP-builds are often referred to as annoying or low-health nuisances. When bosses started, a new aspect came to the game and people started to level off bosses instead of battling, later the Skill Points were increased to 5 per level and the personal att/def stats got a bigger weight in the game's battle mechanics.

Many of the newer players started a game, where you didn't need to build a PvP-Character to advance, you could very well have a Boss Blaster, too. And people leveled through the roof with bosses, at a pace the old PvP-Elite couldn't hope to match. There is only so much constant clicking you can do, before your wrist cramps and you have to call quits. And exchanging 5k for 5k battles takes several hours, burning through stam on bosses takes only a small part of that time. Granted Boss XP suck compared to battle xp, but that's not the discussion here.

Concerning the new players, who didn't get to know the old ways, where PvP was the only way to level, they got comfortable with a rather peaceful playing style, maybe not even knowing the old ways. Now that the Wars are there and there is a real battlefield instead of Boss-Leveling, they are either curious or fearful.

And now comes the point, if they started in the last year, they most likely didn't feel 24 hours of relentless retribution for attempting to score a bounty. Now, if they opt in for the war, most likely without knowing just how long old players have wanted to have some real PvP-action again and fights that you can prolong, just how relentless and merciless fighting was back then, they're likely to scream "I get bullied by higher levels! I quit this unfair game!" Honestly, I had to take quite some abuse back then when I tried to kill or even killed mike Ottard, he was really relentless back then.

I am still convinced that Kano should implement a gauntlet system, when you reach a certain level, everyone can attack you. 2000, 2500 or at the latest, 3000. A level 3000 that is unable to fight back against a level 4000 or a level 5000 that can't fend off a level 4000 seriously did something wrong.

A fact is, that these wars were intended for the old guard, the new players should tread with caution and maybe realize, that it wasn't always sunshine and roses and boss-killing and that there were times, when brutal battling was the only way to advance. And maybe, if they realize this, learn to live with the brutal fighting and killing, they will be able to cherish the game in all its aspects.

Never forget it's a killing game. It's not about fairness in battles, it's about advancing through fights. And if you whack a higher up, you should expect retribution.

I think, the bounty listing of war rivals should herald points, no matter the level. Please note: War Rivals of the guild. It should make people more careful about who they touch and who they leave alone.

And to the lower levels which cry cause they get beat up: It's a fighting and killing game. You opted in for a war, or didn't speak up when your leaders decided to engage in the wars. Don't blame the higher ups for your neglecting of researching facts or your lack of speaking up on a guild matter. My guild waited some days, to gather the thoughts of the active players on the subject. We finally decided to opt in, and even our small members enjoy it. Sure, they take a beating here and there, but it's part of the game.

Anyone has the option to play peacefully. Build a boss blaster or an energy monster and level with bosses/adventures. No need to touch the battle list, ever. There are enough peaceful guilds out there. But if you decided to play with the big boys and girls, expect some bruises. We don't play holding hands, we play "beat someone up with a warhammer".

Now, go out there, grab your axe, cry "Havoc!" and unleash the Hounds of War!

 

i'm a "mid-level player (lvl 2100)" and as much as i can, i try to understand the game so i can play it better. although i wasn't/am not a PvP player, there are times when i like to go to the battle list and send them all to valhalla. I recently beat someone with 400 levels higher and 100 chieftains more. when he started placing counter-attacks and bounties, i cherished every moment : he was afraid of me.
This Guild Wars is about fear, it's about playing this game in it's raw form. it's about going wild.
I stand by polishpimp and Das liebe Beil : don't put limitations, because some stupid can't/won't take the heat.
thanks for listening.

 

...respect... To all the smaller guilds out there!

You guys did great and made the first week of guild wars interesting and fun (for some). You stood your ground and didn't back down...

Ribs. Nas, oea, dvow, ravensfeeders, and more!

 

Kendall,

It's obvious the PvP crowd was targeted by making guild wars. As one of those people, I can appreciate the effort. What you've failed to understand is that calling it "GUILD wars" was misleading to the 98% of people that play the game but don't live and breathe Viking Clan enough to spend every waking moment checking updates on new developments. Granted, that's not your fault. You can only put the word out there as best you can, you can't make people read it.

This option isn't a "guild" war. This is a free for all that you can only participate in if you happen to be in a warring guild with your entire guild getting rewards for it at the end of the week. There's a subtle but distinct difference. I'm sure most assumed that this option would, at least, make enemy guilds relevant with, maybe, an outside shot at making alliances relevant. Making "guild wars" a guild vs guild option would have also targeted those that want more PvP action and probably have been a lot less of a pain in your @ss since of a lot of these issues would have been avoided in the first place. At least then, the players would've known who their enemies are, beforehand, and could've acted accordingly.

I do commend you guys on fixing some obvious flaws in the system and bringing some much needed life back into the game so I'll give it another shot. But I have to honestly say that I'm not at all impressed with what I've seen so far. It's sickening to see a guild full of high levels bounty a bunch of triple digit babies and then beat their chests about it afterwards. Even if it means a chance at more coin in my pocket in the long run.

 

@ Das liebe beil-Im not sure whether its fortunate or unfortunate that the newer players didnt get to go through all the crap the longest standing players did, on one hand...your absolutely right...players today have way more options available to them and can pick or choose what ever suits them best...where as back in the day....players could basically stop your leveling in its tracks as there was no place to hide or another feature to advance with. I remember players who pounded lower levels (one in particular...who still plays) with bounties way more so than they do today......but the game still flourished.

Dont take me wrong here...I think most of the updates have been great...but Kanos lack of attention to the old school players has gave birth to an entire generation of players who believe they are entitled to everything right now that everyone else had to earn through hard knocks. Its as if they think that the higher levels didnt have to start at at level 1 themselves at a time which there was WAY less protection of the lower levels and much fewer features to distract the higher levels from the lowers. Hell....I remember when Kano wasnt doing any updating at all and Muspell was the final world for like a year. Now it seems as if Kano is coming out with a new update like every other day.

Do newer players have a huge advantage of having all the features available to them right from the start....sure they do....they can level faster and begin to gather pertinent items much sooner in their build. Is this a guarantee of success....NO...it still depends on what the player themselves does with it all. But that simply isnt enough....they still want more.....they want to be able to catch the more seasoned player overnight and eventually they will due to a number of things. First of all its the ever increasing number of seasoned players leaving the game due to them being an afterthought when it comes to Kanos new way of doing things. Eventually there will be a whole new crop of higher levels that are use to being coddled to....then what Kano????

I gotta ask myself....is the decrease in overall players really due to bullying as Kano has claimed ? Im beginning to think more and more that Kano is simply adding to much crap. Back in the day when even I was getting pounded by the higher levels,,,,,the game was still flourishing....most of us used the beatings we got as motivation to get stronger and return the favor. How many players who start out today will find the game overwhelming as there is way to much to comprehend from the get go. Maybe it would have helped if many of the updates would have had to of been unlocked at certain levels rather than players getting immediate access from the get go. Level restrictions came to be in an effort to allow newer players a chance to better comprehend the game before it they became exposed to the how the game is really is. Maybe thats the problem....maybe newer players should get a taste of what its really like right from the onset rather then get lulled into a false sense of security only to have a rude awakening once the surpass level 300, rather than focusing on what the game is truly all about.....new players are off frolicking thru the tulips gathering gifts for the blacksmith .

Bullying...is there really such a thing in a game such as this and if there is,,,,is it really hurting the game? what constitutes bullying? Someone who goes out and keeps attacking someone simply because they can beat them regardless of their level? Isnt that the whole idea? I dont know about anyone else....but when i was both a lower and higher ranked player it was very seldom if ever that I would go out and just sit there and attack someone all day that i couldnt beat....would seem to defeat the whole purpose wouldnt it? If a player gets the crap kicked outta them for 500 levels by a particular player and then finally levels higher and becomes strong enough to return the favor...is that bullying or sweet revenge? Is listing someone over and over bullying? I guess it could be...but even then we gotta ask ourselves...why is that person being listed so much....were they picking on someone themselves who happened to be clan with a higher level? Were they talking smack in the feeds? 9 times out of ten I would say one of those things is the reason. Granted ...there r some real A-holes out there that bounty just to climb the leader board.....but those r the ones we love to hate and spurs the game on r they not? The whole reason Im at the rank Im at is because of players just like that. Do I bounty lower leveled players? YEP....but its never just because, most times its because they are either chain listing fellow clan or messing with a guild member. Can bullying a bully be considered bullying? Are we not to stand side by side with those players closest to us that we call guild members?

In the end....I think the demise of Kano and the drop in player count can be contributed to a few things


1) Trying to fix things that aint broke
2) Way to much focus on protecting the newer players ( let them sink or swim)
3) neglecting the players who got them where they are (reward the players that have stuck with u)
4) to much to fast , make players earn access thru leveling and concentrate on the things that still need to be improved
5)dont dwell on things that cant be "fixed" and r inherent to a game such as this
6) A lack of communicating the rules of the game and or its updates to the masses

As far as im concerned Guild wars is a colossal bust, its intended purpose was abandoned mere days into it. An update that was created to allow for more PVP has actually restricted the players that wanted it the most such as myself. The way it stood before....If a low level player attacked or slapped me....I got to retaliate for 24 hrs, now...they can attack me 5 times with no retaliation while giving there guild a shot at winning the trophy. Now...low to mid level players get to bounty people for points once again helping their guild while im lucky to have a handful i can score on through bounties. Once again its turned into an update for the newer players while the old vets get spat on after coming home from the war.

Its limiting updates such as this that piss me off to no end and make me wanna destroy every new player you coddle to thats not in my clan. Funny how that feeling grows with every new update. Guess i better start killing while I still can, never felt the need to b4....but I fear that the end is near b4 we have nothing left but sing alongs and under water basket weaving. Thanks for the update KANO!

 

I gotta say, I'm not a fan of this guild war thing. Yeah, I'm a newer player. Yeah, I get a lot of my points through adventures/assists/bosses. However, I get my fill of PVP points everyday, and I also fight in the PVP area quite a bit. I'm into a continuous war that has nothing to do with the Gulid War because of that with four people, one of whom is about 150 levels ahead of me. (Though I can still whup him when I catch him alive and online...) So I've got no problem with fighting, but what's in it for me to put myself out there to be hammered by guys who're literally THOUSANDS of levels ahead of me? (And one of our guys is getting stomped every day by a guy who's 10000 levels above him...)

Wanna fight? Fine, I'll fight you. Bounty/bountytrap/counterattack/axeslap away and we'll see who racks up the most deaths. Fight with guys who're 4000+ when I'm sitting at 1180+? What's the point? They're going to cream me. Personally I think that unless your guildmates AVERAGE 2500 or higher you should leave Guild Wars completely alone, which is what I'm trying to convince my guild Leader of.

 

well let me say i am level 334 i have been killed several hundred times but guess what you come back and guild wars actually made this game interresting. plus i have my own guild OEA and it was 12 last season and standing at 9 this season the best we have done in 35 seasons. its only a game and now you have something to do. i mean why else would you join a VIKING game if you didn't wanna fight i only wish they would do this for pirate clan as well

 

right on David glad to hear your liking it and that u actual get the idea behind it. I wish u and your guild the best

 

Guilds wars

Thanks devs for bringing fighting back to the game.
It has been a overall very funny first week, better final rewards for atleast top 3 is a must.
You need to extent the war rival list, 100 is way to short.
Please all guild leaders give guild wars another go, if you feel scared away after the first week.
Good Improvement have already been done, every member can join the fun now.


Kind regards Johan Aka SuT

 

I like Guild Wars. It has finally brought the fighting back into VC, that had deteriorated into a never ending boss clicking boredom.
I love the PvP aspect to the game, so any feature that enhances that, I'm all for.
I realise that the Kano devs must appear unbiased and not get involved in the player politics of the game, but I do think that they should take it into account .
There are some deep seated animosities between players in the higher levels and between the top guilds.
There are two sides, with top guilds on each, and while the line between the two may be blurred at times, it is never the less still there.
I think that most players, myself included had assumed guild wars would be about one guild fighting another guild for a set period of time, after which there would be a clear cut decision on which guild was victorious.
To win at guild wars in its current state, you need to attack everyone regardless of level or alliance. As such, the bully accusations are already in full swing. It also doesn't address the rivalries between two guilds.