I just dont get it

This is basically directed @ Kano but as always, everyone is welcome to chime in.

Dont want to sound ungrateful, just want to understand why u guys do the things u do sometimes. The new achievements and soon to come stats for the arena on our profile pages are welcome additions...ty. But why are they so minimal? The obvious that has been brought up yet gone unanswered is why there is no achievement for winning the arena? Is it that winning the arena and its corresponding rewards should be enough? I suppose the same could be said for any other ranking as well.....no? Due to the way u based the "excellent placement" achievements on percentage rather than actual rank....Im thinking u wanted to increase the number of players that were eligible for these achievements. Are u omitting the top 1% category due to the relatively small number of players that have actually won an arena? If thats the case....Im confused even more.....Do we not want to reward excellence....Dont we want to motivate players to achieve it? So what if only a small number of players have won.......that fact should not diminish ones accomplishments, in fact it should have the opposite affect.

The other thing being......Why did u not go further with the achievements? There is not a single arena achievement that had not already been surpassed at the time they were introduced. Why not have come out with achievements that ALL players still get to look forward to? Although retroactive achievement are still cool .....its still better to have something to look at and work towards. I also cant believe that awarding achievements and their rewards retroactively is some how easier than putting them in place in the first place....that makes zero sense. Ive heard Devs on numerous occasions state that its difficult to keep up the highest of levels or players that excel in particular aspects of the game, so why come out with an update that is already behind them?

I dont know.....it just seems weird to me that some game achievements are out in the stratosphere as to realistically obtaining them yet others get implemented already behind the times. It seems hypocritical that when its stated its hard to keep up when the easier thing to do would have been to just add to them initially rather than later. I dont think its just me that finds it weird that u reward all those but the most successful. A reply as to your reasoning's would be greatly appreciated.

 

Let me answer some of your questions:

“[why is there] no achievement for winning the arena? “

We decided that winning the arena is enough of a reward for a player, you get a nice reward and you get a place on the leaderboard for everyone to see. We did not want to create an achievement that only certain (top 5%) players would be able to achieve. The average user does not find it motivating if they feel they will never have a shot at an achievement.


“Why did u not go further with the achievements?”

When we have been giving out achievements lately we have ensured that we do not make them unreasonable. For example in zombie slayer we had about 10 players with over 250,000 attacks but the majority of people who play in the arena are not even close to this. We wanted to ensure the majority of players have a reasonable shot at getting the achievements through regular play.

There is definitely some discussion that can take place on ‘why we did not go further with the achievements’. We would be interested in hearing from a variety of players about their opinions.



That being said we will roll out more achievements for battle arena as more players progress.

 

I appreciate you getting back to me, although I respectfully disagree with the logic that went into your reasoning's. As far as obtainable achievements go.... youve stated that "you wanted to ensure the majority of players have a reasonable shot at getting the achievements through regular play.", is it reasonable to think the majority of players are ever going to get the top achievements for battle victories(5million), bounty kills(30k) etc etc? As far as arena achievements go...there is already a number of players far exceeding the numbers needed for the top achievements and countless others closing in fast.....it defies logic to to implement such low numbered achievements especially when one considers the extra workload on an already over burdened staff to implement this retroactively down the road. To be blunt.....it sucks to be playing blind.....not having something to aim for puts players at a disadvantage when it comes to where they need to focus their attention. All to often that seems to come at the expense of the highest of levels, it just seems this would have been a good opportunity to rectify this issue in part.

I see the arena stats are now on some of our profile pages....very cool....ty! I would still like to see actual arena leader boards though so we can see what everyone has done in one place rather than having to go to everybodys page individually

Another thing u said "We did not want to create an achievement that only certain (top 5%) players would be able to achieve.". You did give an achievement for this.

Did u even ask the "average player" if an achievement for winning the arena would motivate them or not? Considering Kano employees play the games very lil....I hope they are not who u are calling the "average player" . Its already widely believed by the community that Kano is already out of touch with how things actually play out in their games....unfortunately I think that situation will only perpetuate that belief.

Does it matter that only a few will get a achievement for winning an arena? They all have a shot at it ...right? Thats what youve been telling everybody. The rewards for winning an arena are extremely lacking....now they dont get an achievement for what is easily the most impressive thing in the games to date. Ugh....your just killing me here.

 

dont get it either

im so on polish's side it scares me....

an "achievement" should be just that
right now at least in zombie slayer the majority of "achievements" are basically participation awards
getting in top 20 percent? out of 1500 players - top 300? there arent even 300 active players!!!!!!!!
top 10 percent - ditto
top 5 percent - top 75 is an acheivement? come on....maybe top 20, defintely top 10, but top 75 is best we can strive for?
attacks and kills are rookie achievements - where are the veteran ones? im more than double both of these....

i cant kill 5 billion zombies but i can double attacks and kills in arena before you make the achievements
why not have the same thinking here with killing zombies and put some achievements out there that will be...
well achievements

you did it for killing zombies, you did it for fight wins
why cant you do it for everything else????

signed
nothing to do in arena....
cuz ive been there and done that....

 

There should at least be a achievement for winning the arena

After all "many will enter only one will emerge"


Winning the arena should have a achievement.

 

yeah, i cant see what you (kanites) dont comprehend about this topic in general...forget the arena achievements for a moment...a LOT of the achievements leave out the top tier players, you cant just think about the semi-new players and slow-leveling ones when compiling lists of achievements for any category....its really as simple as this, and almost ANY player will agree, people that care about achievements/leaderboard standing will ALWAYS strive for ANY mark you set...some will be placed on the back burner as its tailored for their own personal style of play, but the ones they really care about and want to achieve WILL be achieved by most that set their sights for it and mark my words...i dont care if polish and jj play every arena for the next 10 years, SOMEBODY will find a way to strategize around them and though they may win 98% of them, that still leaves that 2% that will go to someone else and you can bet your hairy ass that THAT'S an achievement they will cherish and gloat in for a long damn time. now, kanites, and ANYONE else....argue THAT logic

 

you basically just said that you tailored the achievements for everyone BUT the higher levels, the ones that have put more time, effort AND the ever precious dollar sign into these games way more than the "average player". while im sure your reply was appreciated, it was an outright smack in the face to polish as well as others in his tier on any platform or app, i dont think it was meant in that way but damn man, that was seriously some cold sh**.

 

I know


Those that know how to exceed in something get screwed over.

 

A player in another thread brought up a great example. The top achievement for listing someone is 400 while the top achievement for bounty kills is 30 k. Someone want to do the math and explain that one? If we are only going to get achievements that are obtainable by the masses how on earth does the disparity of those 2 achievements promote that?

Another player brought up another point. Are half of these things actually achievements or are they merely participation awards? Wanting to reward the masses rather than those who go out and actually excel in the things Kano designed for us to do seems to defy logic. Not rewarding the players that have done the most does not promote activity....it stunts it. Your rewarding mediocrity while slapping your most dedicated in the face. You are also saying u have lil or no faith in the players coming up through the ranks.

Honestly...I think Kano should go take a look at the achievement list...particularly ones that have been updated and ask themselves how many of theses are going to be achieved by the 5% of players or the "average user" in their respective games any time soon. The comments by Dark Stratus the admin that A)"We wanted to ensure the majority of players have a reasonable shot at getting the achievements through regular play." B) "We did not want to create an achievement that only certain (top 5%) players would be able to achieve." seems to contradict when he said "When we have been giving out achievements lately we have ensured that we do not make them unreasonable". So of the more recent updated achievements like battle wins (5m), bounty kills (30k), level(15k) which of these is reasonable for the "average user"? Even some of the ancient achievements like the the 10k survival streak.....how many have or will ever get this? What about high level boss, challenges and adventures achievements? Are these obtainable by the "average user" "anytime soon"? I wouldnt consider myself an average user....and I dont see myself hitting some of those achievements ever...but thats not gonna stop me from trying. Why? Because they are there!

So in the end...."I just dont get it", Both what your saying and what your doing seems to be contradictory. Are u saying that no other players will ever win an arena but the top players? Not only does that not agree with what Kano has said about other levels chances in the arena but not only the top players win. In MS VC the top player who is 6k levels ahead of #2 has never won, #4 who is very close in levels to #2 n #3 has never won.....so its not a given. The fact that some players just havent figured out how to topple the current champs is not a reason to screw the current winners....Its only a matter of time before this happens as its doable now as has been proven in MS PC.

So what? If and when more players start winning arenas then we might get achievements for placing #1 retroactively? Dont u see how that diminishes our current accomplishments? OK....now that u suck and multiple other players have won....heres your reward? Its just more of the same BS. Like I said previously....its much more satisfying to eye a prize, set a goal, work towards that goal and then accomplish it rather than get it well after the fact. Its like a veteran earning and getting the bronze star after their dead....still cool as hell.....but not nearly as cool as getting it while your still alive. The logic behind "We did not want to create an achievement that only certain (top 5%) players would be able to achieve". belittles the idea of an "achievement" to the point of a participation award.....what are we playing here....pee wee football?

Stop slighting your most dedicated players in the name of "spreading the wealth", we have given you our time and money....now gives us our due! This may be a business but its also a competition that we have worked hard at.....its time to recognize those that have done exactly what you put out for us to do . What is so hard about that to understand? Nearly everything u do falls short of where your current top players are at where as everyone else has stuff to look forward to and strive for. Its been said that Kano has a hard time keeping up with the top tier of players....and that may be true. But before you is a simple way to remedy that in some way....the fact that u dont....speaks volumes and every lower level player thinking about dedicating their time and/or money should think long and hard about whether thats a good idea considering how those that came before them are being treated

 

pimp is right and i agree that there should of been 1 for number 1 finnish in the arena...to me that is everyones goal is to win it...and if this was up to vote on i would give it a big 10...was that not kanos ideal at first when ya brought it out that many will enter and only 1 will walk out as a winner...

 

Something else that doesnt make a lot of sense to me is that supposedly the Battle arena was created with the higher levels predominantly in mind yet still gave others a chance. well that may have been the idea ....but whos really benefiting from the arenas? So to help out with a short battle page ....we get an arena every 10 days...how many levels does a high leveled player get and in how much time compared to a low to mid level player who has a fraction of the so called success in the arena? Im lucky to get 20-30 levels and i play non stop from beginning to end and lead MS VC arena in both attacks and kills. Depending on the number of participants and a few other variables.....I rarely recoup what I spend in FP verses the 75 fp reward for winning. Sure....I think I could win an arena while attacking and killing far less while spending far less FP on stamina refills.....but if I did guess what would happen? I would get half of the meager levels I get now and my stats that go toward achievements would take a beating....either way its detrimental other than I get to win, yet theres no achievement for that.

On the other hand, low, mid and sorta high leveled players get to level for a fraction of the cost and obtain a ton more levels, more usable drops and get to do it in a fraction of the time. Who was the battle arena for again? All its really doing is allowing the lower levels catch up and get stronger faster. I would imagine thats the whole idea....slow down the highest of levels so the others can catch up and we all have bigger battle pages and the arena will be even more competitive. Although it comes at the expense of the highest of levels.....I suppose its not the worst idea ever (even though u had to screw over your most dedicated to do it). Maybe then we will even get achievement for winning the darn arena too! That would all be a lil easier to swallow if u werent discounting are current accomplishments along the way. Once again.....oh boy...now that were no longer competitive we get our achievements retroactively while everyone else gets something to look forward to and bask in currently.

Is it about balance? If my arena wins were tied to achievements and gave out corresponding skill points as reward....would that really send the game outta whack? Im already at a level that most will never obtain. The players that are passed me in levels or are close behind all have a realistic legitimate shot at winning and getting those rewards, everyone else is way behind and wont be affected and they already potentially get much more out of an arena.


Or is it like u say and u dont want to put out achievements so few can potentially get and that seemingly unobtainable achievements dont motivate players? If its the latter......that makes zero sense and is in direct contradiction to what you have done with so many of your most recent achievement updates and completely discriminates against all those that have already surpassed current achievement levels.


I think its also important to note that lower levels arena stats are artificially inflated due to the handicapping system....once again making what we do actually even more impressive while your r diminishing are accomplishments even more. There is but one player I cant beat in MS VC yet due to the handicapping system in the arena .....I lose a good portion of my attacks that I would normally never lose making it even harder and costlier to obtain my achievements than my lowered leveled counterparts. On the otherhand lower levels that would normally never be able to beat me ... can beat me upwards and over 50% of the time in the arena while racking up the best XP they can get anywhere. This allows lower level players to artificially inflate stats that go toward there achievements, yet what we do despite the handicaps and the stam and time invested not even rate an achievement......the more i think about it the more insulting i realize it is.

 

I agree with the, OP 100%. And congrats to those who have reached, 1st in the arena. To achieve, 1st is a battle well played and deserves recognition.

 

you may as well give it up polish, all youre going to get is more runaround answers that answer nothing and xxxx you off even more...been there done that my friend

 

Never knew a rooster had "Unkissable breath" lol

 

well it would seem polish is an expert on the subject, we'll just have to take his word for it xD

 

Yep...

Those that actually know how to play get screwed over.

Typical.

 

pimp, it could be that the small number of top players are always the same group of players and most of them are the highest players in the game. and the winner of the arena already gets a lot more than anyone else does plus the achievements also, so why should they add even more to the same players who knock the lower levels out just so they can win all the time. I appreciate everything I earn in the game and am satisfied with what they did for the achievements, but then there are always those who want even more. but you do raise some good points also

 

Well...thats the thing, the players that normally win dont "get a lot more"....in fact its not even close. To win an arena I spend more than I get back (most times anyhow).

I think that its important to remember that the arena is handicapped. Its also important to remember that the highest of levels have no choice but to kill lower levels because everyone else is a lower level...its not as if they are picked on. In fact..I search out and try to kill the highest of levels first as the represent the biggest threat...they also happen to be mostly in game rivals. Sometimes if I find them early on I will simply save them if they are active so as to help me clear the arena of clutter so to speak. So in reality....because I go after the biggest targets first....Im actually helping the lowest of levels achieve a better rank. With every kill I get...everyone else moves up a spot and there is one less player to kill them. Of course i also take out other accounts with a solid health to reward ratio, but can ya fault that? I need to build health as much as the next guy, but none the less my main focus is always on the upper levels.

So back to the handicap and why high levels dont get nearly as much out of the arena as their lower level counterparts. In some cases when a lower level hits me in the arena they can win more than 50% of the time, thats an increase of 100% from the regular game. When they do beat me they are getting the absolute best XP and drops they can get for their level. On the other hand.....When I attack a lower level Im lucky to win 80% of the time, once again thats a 100% decease from the regular game. Even when I do win...The Xp and drops are bad for my level. The end result is that the Savy low to mid level player that makes it half way through an arena can quadruple the levels and good drops that I can get at a fraction of the cost and time. Basically what I get is the satisfaction of not allowing my rivals win. As far as achievements....the fact that Kano based them on percentage rather than actual rank all but ensures that a savy player of any level can get them.

So as usual....lower levels are getting a leg up at the expense of the higher levels. Dont take me wrong...obviously the arena needs to be handicapped and Im not advocating that it be removed (maybe just dialed back a bit, over 50% is insane). Im just saying its really not justified when the lower levels complain about whos winning and what they get. If I took anything but #1,#2,#3 it would be a complete failure in regards to the return on my investment.

I respect the fact that you appreciate everything you earn...as do I. Whomever wins an arena earns it do they not? If u won an arena...would u not have earned it? Wouldnt you want an achievement for that considering you have done what most others havent and it just so happens to be above and beyond everything else they already give achievements for in the arena?

 

and as usual not a word from kano....(cricket)

 

lol. I do tend to get my FAIR share of silence from Kano. But in fairness Dark stratus did reply. Although his response appeared hypocritical, wasnt very logical from my point of view and once again was bias in favor of the lowers makes no diff of course